mod the motor!

[hotcake]

howdy folks i just got my account activated hoowoo. anyways ive always looked at hyrogen internal combustion engines (ICE)... i had an idea for a while and just as i was about to start explaining it , i saw another thread with the same idea.... which got me thinking....

if two peopl have the same idea there must be merit in it...

after reading these posts and watching youtube vids, all the focus is on getting more hydrogen out of water with little power.... and thats great keep going iv started my (meyers) wfc... but im not good with electronics..im ok, but im not great. anyways im a machanical engineer by trade and are designing an ICE to run on "less" hydrogen than a normal hydro ICE. so hopefully i can run an engine on the hydrogen a WFC can produce....

for those of you who arnt engine savy let me give you a run down on the problems with a ICE

the concept of a ICE was developed over 200 years ago! and hasnt changed since they were designed to burn octane fuel...petrol etc. petrol NEEDS to be compressed to combust. pour a little bit of petrol on the ground, light it and it will simply catch alite and burn....NOT combust
hydrogen seems to not need compression to combust.

there are 4 strokes of the piston in every cycle. in an engine running at 3000rpm, these cycles repeat 750 times a minute per cylinder...
the 4 strokes are "intake" "compression" "combusion" "exhaust"
2 of these strokes indure massive resistance to the engine. 1 of these strokes is a ...waste (maintaince) stroke. the other is the stroke that provides the power...not very efficient.

the intake stroke sucks air/fuel mix into the chamber, the air/fuel is governed by the thottle... if you have the throttle closed (idel) it creates a vacume in the chamber...resistance! ...

the compresson stroke is the biggest holdback... the piston has to compress the air/fuel to around 1/10 its size... alot of resistance.. do you find it abit hard to pull start your lawn mower, kick start a motorbike?? this is the resistance im talking bout..

only the power from the combusion stroke with the flywheel gets the engine though these resistances.

these problems im refering to are there for 1 reason... to compress the airfuel in order for it to combust.... hydrogen doesnt need that.

my idea (same as the other chaps idea cant remeber his user name ATM)
is by simply changing the valve timing to stay open through the intake AND compression strokes, only closing right before compression stroke is finished. injecting hydrogen just before valve closes and igniting just after TDC... this will eliminate these resistances

there is alot more to explain but dont want this post to be so long, that noone reads it lol

comments?

im very happy to be brain storming with inovative people like yourselves..

cheers for reading

how did people do this before the internet

[hydroxrox]

[readyakira]

I thought not only the combustion factor, but the amount of expansion was one of the reasons for compression. I assume your talking about hydrogen actually means hydroxy? Hydrogen by it self would not combust without the oxygen to react with? and with the compression stroke open the air would be pushed out in effect filling the chamber with not enough oxygen to cause a good combustion with hydrogen alone. Also if I am not mistaken higher compression allows higher power strokes? One of the biggest problems I thought with ICE was energy lost in form of heat. Which is why heating fuel gives better mileage? You are using the lost energy in the form of heat and using that energy to make more of the fuels energy available.
Anyways back on topic, I think you would want those valves closing during the compression stroke so some of the air is compressed to produce higher pressure on the pistion when the combustion takes place. drag cars run really high compression, and produce much more HP then a regular car. anyone know figures on how much expansion regular petrol does compared to hydroxy? That could make your ideas easier to bring to reality?

[readyakira]

Thinking more about this if you was to do away with the compression stroke in effect you could probably have a shorter stroke on the engine to use all the available power, but this would basicly mean a complete redesign on the engine.

[AlaskaStar]

This was the easy part:

Use a DI (Electric) diesel injector. these can hold themselves in high pressure as well as heat.

Now REMOVE the intake and compression action of the cam on the valves, and make it exhaust on every downward stroke.

Add a spark plug with the injection nozzle in the combustion chamber.

Result: every "up stroke" is the exhaust stroke, at about 30 degrees btdc, the exhaust action closes, the injector meters BOTH hydrogen AND oxygen, the plug fires it, and the piston blasts downward. you have now converted a 4 stroke engine to 2 stroke operation and resulted in having the ability to EXACTLY METER the fuel and oxidizer levels, as well as the timing and spark advance curve, every down stroke is a power stroke.

may use less fuel?

Might use more?

What if used properly, would not need a wattage sucking starter, just inject fuel and fire the cylinder that is at the top or very near it.

I think it would work. until I see proof that it doesn't, there isn't any reason to avoid converting a small engine (Briggs, Onan, Kohler.....) to operate this way, because it's cheap and would provide a working model.

AlaskaStar

[hydroxrox]

[hotcake]

[readyakira]