water resonant freqency

[kadora]

[chemelec]

Contrary to claims that I have seen, I have also Never found any Resonant Frequency of water.

What I have noticed in some of the cells being made, is that they have used Inductors in there circuits. It is more likely that this Inductor, along with the cells Capacitance is creating the resonance with the frequency, not actually the water.

Gary

[skibum13]

It seems that the Resonant Frequency of Water is the Holy Grail of Electrolysis. I'm not sure that anybody who figures it out is going to run out and tell everybody. Even Chris didn't explicitly say what the frequency was he was using when he saw his increase in hydrogen production (read through his electrolysis project). He did say that it was down to a 10-20hz resolution and it had to stay at that frequency for a period of time before he saw any increase in production.

The only other place I have seena frequency mentioned is this post from Bob Boyce's dated Oct 10, 2002 regarding the frequency he was using:

"a 300 watt pseudo-sine wave inverter that had been modified so the base frequency could be adjusted between 700 and 800 hz. The stepped sine wave output was fed through a bridge rectifier which turned each stepped sine wave into two positive stepped half waves. Each of these half waves had 8 steps, so a single cycle was turned into 16 steps. The resulting output, while not consisting of intermixed square waves, was still rich in harmonics, and I found it much easier to dial in resonance than trying to tune 3 separate frequencies. The frequency range can change depending on the number of steps in the pseudo-sine wave of the inverter you choose since not all inverters are created equal. The desired effect is caused by the multiple harmonic resonances in the inverter output at higher frequencies. You will know when you hit resonance by the dramatic increase in vapor output. The frequency does vary a bit as to what electrolyte is used, the specific gravity of the electrolyte solution (how much electrolyte to water is in the mix), electrolyte temperature, water purity, etc." (http://www.freeenergynews.com/Directory ... Bob_Boyce/)

I have also not been able to tell if the output is put through the cathodes and anodes (the positive and negative plates) or if it is applied directly to the water. I would make sure you were set up properly before trying to dial in the frequency.

Maybe somebody who know something about this (which obviously isn't me) can help educate the rest of us.

[geoffro]

high skibum13
i am new to this game and probably a lot nieve but didn't alaskastar say that 2400mhz was the frequency required to make water unstable???
but i would be very interested in what bob has to say about his experiments
cheers
geoffro

[thrival]

These webpages might be helpful.

http://www.rexresearch.com/meyerhy/meyerhy.htm#danforth

http://web.mit.edu/jpowell/www/nmr.pdf

The second site indicates the resonant value for the hydrogen atom-- 7.533 Mega-Hz. IMHO this frequency should have the greatest potential for high output, especially with a tuned EM coil to weaken the bond. At any rate it would appear there's more than one sweet spot.

These from Puharich's patent (uses very low power):

1st Harmonic =7,960 Hz.

2nd Harmonic =15,920 Hz.

3rd Harmonic =31,840 Hz.

4th Harmonic =63,690 Hz.

...and these from danforth (re: Stanley Meyer):

"Note: Sub-harmonics of the two primary frequencies at which dissociation will occur:

43,430 Hz
SUBHARMONIC
1st 21,715 HZ
2nd 14,476.67 HZ
3rd 1,085.7 HZ
4th 8,686

143,762 HZ
SUBHARMONIC
1st 71,881 HZ
2nd 47,920.67 HZ
3rd 35,940.1 HZ
4th 28,752.4 HZ

*1500 VOLTS IS THE MINIMUM REQUIRED FOR MOLECULAR RINGING TO BEGIN.


Perhaps the reason no one is reporting success with resonance
is the voltages they're working with are too low. Sometimes you
have to break rules to reap rewards.

I find AlaskanStar's suggestion of using a catalyst most interesting to all this. The sulfate form of any two dissimilar (colloidal) metals with sufficient electro-potential difference to tear the water apart (what was it Chris, something like 1.5V or less?) ...could work. Pumping energy in from outside just adds more power/speeds the reaction, at least that would appear what Linnard Griffin does when he puts his samples upon a thermal hotplate (energy source.)

Hey Alaska, where are you? Hope the feds didn't pick you up over some terrorist B.S.

[kadora]

hi again
to ring water molecules is needed min. 1500v but count with me.
suppose the resistance between electrodes is 10 ohms
1500v devide 10ohm ---150amps (huge flow of amps)
150amps time 1500v ---225000w (for such power is needed
special wiring to a laboratory)
when the resonance is hit then MAYBE current drops to few
mili amps MAYBE but we have to consider time till we find resonant
frequency

chris showed us he resonated water at 20Hz /300mA /6V but i dont understand why he does not carry on with it because i thing that
gas releasing on his photo is huge and more efficient than common
electrolysis (i have tried this experiment without success )

Cris and Bob seem to be the most experimenced guys in this case
so i wold like to know their stand point to the water resonance.

juraj

[thrival]

Bob-- are you saying you found the resonant frequency of water? ...or are you speaking of other chemical reaction experiments you've conducted? If you've reproduced Meyer's frequencies, please share with us. Personally I'd rather not screw around with microwave parts.

A narrator to short movie clip of the late Stanley Meyer, states he used cycles up to 20 kHz. Voltages were not disclosed, although I believe danforth spoke with Meyer when he was alive, which I can only assume is where the 1500V figure came from. His patent speaks of spikes, or pulse width modulation, and adequate relaxation time between pulses. There may be a level of refinement here beyond mere resonant frequency.

kadora-- forget the resistance of the cell, your circuit has it's own inner resistances and will only deliver as much current as it allows. The short gap between cells of zero R soon encounters R again when it reaches the other pole. You can limit the amount of current thru a cell or cells with a simple voltage divider.

[thrival]

Dear Bob:

Thank you.

I can only guess the means to spin water molecules
is by pulsed DC magnetic fields. My understanding from
Meyer's writings was polar alignment between the plates
and resonance just shattered and ripped them apart, so
don't understand completely what point the coil served
or why rotation helps.

Hey, it just occurred to me that his design, a central
vertical coil, surrounded by vertical stainless-steel tubes
within tubes, looks a lot like a magnetron in a microwave.
The speed of oscillations would have a lot to do with the
size of the tubes and applied frequency, the output Hz
could vary widely with input.

I wasn't sure that adding energy was needed to break
the bonds. Couldn't the same be said for taking energy
away that holds the gases together? (Not sure how to
go about that.)

If the solution contains dissimilar metals as colloids,
was speculating that eV between those metals may be
great enough with applied energy, to do the same thing
@ less power, at least what AlaskaStar implied, and
Linnard Griffin demonstrated with his hotplate.

Adding O6 to submerged chunks of coal creates lots of
electricity. Do you think that process might be reversed
by adding coal dust or activated charcoal /"black water
subject to electrolysis? Of course more electron handles
to O may not further splitting the H away, but simply
provide more for the H to grab on to.

best regards,

thrival

[kadora]

hi thrival
maybe i am missing something but if you use simple divider
connected in serial with cell then voltage is divided too and cell
or cells are not exposed to the full voltage.

thank you

i admire these discussions

[thrival]

TO: Kadora

Well, that's true. One solution is making higher V than you need
then using the V divider for the V & I you want. The V drop across
the current limiting resistor is minimal if your shunt across the load
is big, say 1 Megohm. Remember, it's the ratio between two R's
in a voltage divider. You can use any size resistors you want as long
as you maintain that ratio.

...or you can use a capacitor to limit current, which you may know
are transparent to AC. Check out the circuits at:

http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/ ... 2/hv2.html

There was a young man on this board last year, Marcus Wagner,
quite bright with circuits, was offering a pulser board. He knew how
to use capacitors much like transformer coils to get various
current ratios / differentials, the point of the capacitor(s) to
regulate current flow. (A smaller capacitor lets less current
through.)

Here are a couple links on PWM:

http://www.uoguelph.ca/~antoon/circ/pwm555.html

http://www.allaboutcircuits.com/vol_6/chpt_6/9.html

Forget about DC flow for the moment because you need to create
AC oscillations for any kind of pulse train. Once you establish the
current flow and frequency you want, CLAMP it above the zero line.

You get DC pulses out your clamper. One clamped pulse equals both
half-cycles of a sine wave. Note: clampers are also known as voltage
doublers. They use a diode, and a capacitor. I think you can only
do this on the primary, low V side, because I've never seen a MOSFET
that could gate 30-60KV.

[kadora]

[Loster]

[BEMET]

[thrival]

TO: BEMET

I deleted those my recent posts because the chinese
are lifting military secrets. If the idea is any good, we don't
need to give them any more advantage, but neither to the
current admin. (Is my opinion that 911, Spain and London
bombings were all inside jobs. See: infowars.com,
technoslavery.com/documentary).

Sure I'll bet all that might work.

SS has higher R than silver. Should still work tho.
Need a thin screen of dielectric material between
to keep the (+),(-) screens from shorting out.
A problem I ran into cutting metal screen: the edge wires
are sharp and tend to poke every which way
(through things) tending to short the screens out.

Screens tend for fast throughput. We may want to
make the vapors linger in passing through; the more
time spent in surface contact with respective dissociative
plate/screen/particle elements.

Lots of battery-amps to make the Spirit of America go,
but that was a rocket motor; we shouldn't need that much.

Mist is good, but contains precipitates. Vapor bubblers/wicks
are just super-fast evaporation units. The precipitates should stay
in the carb and be easy to flush out.

I think we need to start considering alternative elctrolyzer designs
because the plates-in-electrolyte-solution has some pretty obvious
efficiency barriers. The only way around that problem I see using
that method is resonance and/or catalysts. The latter has to be
changed/recycled, and the former hasn't been replicated (or published.)

I like the idea of plasma diffusers because they have large surface
area, can diddle with the frequencies, run on HV/low I, mist/vapors
are closer to the gas we need, and plasmas have the potential of
adding electrons to H shells. That adds A LOT more power when you
burn it. An extra ignition coil and a pulser circuit are little burden; Also
nothing to change or wear out over the short term.

[BEMET]