Low Voltage Electrolysis Questions

[Grailer88]

I am very taken by the 4% hydrogen gas to 96% air ratio necessary to run an internal combustion engine and that this would go down to 1% hydrogen gas and 99% air, in the case of a higher purity (more perfect or noble) gas. Irrespective of the theoretical considerations of monatomic v/s diatomic
implosions or explosions, it is plain that some critical combination of hydrogen gas and air will:

A. Run the engine.

or

B. Cause the engine to run better.

I'm currently working on B, by adding hydrogen gas to the gasoline to improve performance. So I am using hydrogen as a "CATALYST" (Wiseman) and adding it to the gasoline.

Looking at the Hyzor and various other similar devices it does not take a lot of hydrogen to get better performance. But how much is enough. Most likely the hydrogen is going into gasoline that has an existing fuel to air ratio of 14.7 to 1. Do I need less than 1% hydrogen? More than 4%?

Well I really cannot answer the theortical questions but I did discover that I can run the engine better and longer with hydrogen gas. This is a LOT more fun. Classic American Pragmatism: If it works its good. Then just do more of what ever it is that is working.

MAKING A MEDICINE OF THE ILLNESS
In the 1940's a very simple Water Vapor Injector technology was designed. It is said that the technology was used during WW II on air craft engines. The water is NOT really injected. It is bubbled in a glass jar by vacuum preasure and sucked into the intake maniford. No water goes into the engine just a vapor you cannot see.This "simple" device produces ALL the classic symptoms, in an engine, we have come to associate with Rhodes/Browns gas.

It produces considerably more power in the engine, cleans up emissions,
removes carbon. However it does not improve mileage very much, no matter what you do with it. Today, conditions being what they are are,
these are important enough improvements to justify the installations of this technology on every engine in the country. That consideration aside,
there is a way to greatly enhance the MPG derived from this device.

Add a positive and a negative electrode at low amp's and an electrolyte
to the water. The turbulance in the jar from the vacuume preasure:

A. Knocks the hydrogen and oxygen off the electrodes.

B. Mixes the hydrogen and oxygen with air and water vapor producing
a gas that WILL NOT EXPLODE untill it is sparked in the cylinder.

Sadly, I dont have a clue as to the exact composition of this mix or the proportions of air, water, hydrogen, oxygen, and gasoline that get to the cylinder.


C. Sucks the vapor produced into the intake manifold and mixes it
with the gasoline and air producing a "catalytic" reaction.

I would love to have some kind of sub quantum mechanical explanation
for the Fibornacci like sequence of events that sorts this fuel/air mixing chaos into the synergy that runs the engine longer and better. Perhaps it is as Ruggerio Maria Santilli suggests: "neutron decay." But really I do not require a theory for better gas mileage and improved performance as these are there own reward.

In merging one simple system (water vapor injector) with another simple system (electrolizer and electrolyte) I had to keep asking myself how anything this SIMPLE could NOT work. Simplicity and elegance are the
final criteria for proof in any scientific method.

I consider that with the WWII Water Vapor Technology that a kind of "bare maximum" level of hydrogen was being successfully introduced
by means of enturbulation. It definately produced good results but there was a fixed upper limit. In theory there would also be a fixed upper limit
with this technology coupled to electrolysis & electrolyte contingent upon
the fuel to air PERCENTAGE that is introduced to the fuel/air RATIO.

FUEL AIR PERCENTAGE~ (R/B GAS at .001 to 4%)
____________________________________

FUEL AIR RATIO~ (14.0 TO 15.0%)

At some point perhaps with TWO optimized electrolysis units, you reach the point where the catalytic reaction reaches saturation, and the vacuum to intake manifold type of delivery system hit a glass ceiling.







[/b]

[H2opefull]

I too found this information, so I ran out and got me some methanol...
I discovered some interesting things, namely:

Methanol burns even after being diluted 3: with water! (VERY DIFFICULT TO EXTINGUISH-OH, AND THE FLAMES ARE INVISIBLE EXCEPT IN TOTAL DARKNESS)

Apparently the information regarding molar measurement in these instructions is also incorrect. (my first red flag here.)

I replaced our usual electrolyte (KOH & H2O) with the recommended methanol mixture, and hooked up my variable voltage/current DC power supply-
You guessed it- NOTHING
I boosted current up to abt 5 amps at 1.5 volts before ANY bubbles would form- but no where even close to regular electrolyte.
BUT- when I hooked up my usual auto-alternator power, there were SPARKS!!! and ARCS!!!
forming under the solution on the edges of the electrodes (I have a clear vessel I can use so I can see what's going on in a experimental setup like this); anyway- I don't recommend anyone else try this- IF the methanol mixture coulda, woulda ignited, I wouldn't be here to tell ya'll about this!!!

I came to the conclusion that this methanol information is FALSE!!!

(Anyone else tried this with different results?) I doubt it.....

It is too bad that these kinds of "test results" are being promulgated to such optimistic, unsuspecting experimenters- I think you would agree!!

Be careful, guys we need ya alive and experimenting if we are to eventually succeed!!

[Technomancer]

I'm sure glad I found this board. A friend and I are working on a water splitting unit with the ultimate goal of running our cars on hydrogen/oxygen. We've been putting in a lot of effort, and some of these posts will save us a lot of time!!

Anyway, as a real gearhead, I just wanted to clear up the whole 'water injection' thing from the post above. Adding water to the mixture in WWII fighter planes was tried, and it worked very well. It *only* works well, however, in conjunction with some other parameters of engine operation. Here's what it does:

1. It cools the combustion chamber and intake valve, robbing heat energy in order to turn the water into steam. This reduces detonation under full-throttle conditions, and allows the engine to run at higher power levels than would normally be possible.

2. Expansion of the water into steam increases the cylinder pressures greatly. Liquid water, when heated to 'dry steam' increases in volume roughly 60,000 times, I've been told.

It's easy to see why injecting small amounts of water into an engine running at wide-open-throttle would have some beneficial results. TOO much water, of course, would result in problems like bent valves, rods, and blown headgaskets (as anyone who has tried to drive through too-deep water can attest), or at best, would impede ignition and lead to a fouled plug.

A lot of Messerschmitt fighters used a water/alcohol mix instead of pure water, but the end result and application is identical. The alcohol was added primarily to prevent freezing at high altitudes.

[olympios]

What happened? Is this thread abandoned? Anybody had any success with Bob's idea?
The links to the blue prints don't work. Does any one have them?
Anyway, I have a couple of questions: What do you mean by "connected in series"? Does this mean that the plates are connected to each other like a short circuit or they are connected alternately like 1,3,5,7... to possitive and 2,4,6,8... to negative?
Also, you mentioned that the plates were done in a "sandwich" configuration. Does this mean that they were "pressed" together (separated with plexiglass), but how does the solution gets to the supface of the plates?
Thanks.

[olympios]

[glenn_aircooled]

[Joseph]

This is one of the few places I've seen that mentions methanol at all. Sorry you guys have had odd experiences with it - were you using distilled water or tap water?

Anyhow, the unit available that uses methanol and distilled water together is the "Aquathrust" made by the Aquatune team. I'm running the thrust unit on the RV's 454 although I usually cap the methanol input and just run distilled water. This is their unit that is intended for horsepower increases as opposed to their other products that are focused on MPG. If you count any of your time as money, you should probably consider their products - they come with money back guarantees and 5 year warranties. I own 3 units right now and am installing an AquatunePlus unit on an '03 Acura 3.2L tomorrow.

Even though the thrust unit is for HP, I was steady at 5.25 MPG before and am steady at 8.5 MPG now on the 454(that's like 60% better), although they tell me I can see higher as I've got to get my timing dialed in better (I'm cranked out to 30 degrees right now just seeing how far I can go without predetonation/backfiring/dieseling). ***I should note also, so no one blows their car up with half baked experiments, that all of the aquatune units allow a certain amount of uncracked water into the system for the WWII effect which prevents the predetonation associated with orthohydrogen injection along with a host of other positives already mentioned in this thread..

Also - on alcohol - that's their recomendation too. You run 50/50 in the winter time although it isn't required at all in the summer, and hasn't made any noticeable difference to me except that alcohol costs a little more than distilled water. If anybody's cell is to be a year round solution, you've got to figure this in or make sure your electrolyzer lowers the freezing temperature effectively. Remember that our chemistry teachers used no electrolyzers but used platinum or similar cathode/anode combinations.

On "how much is enough?", if you are making parahydrogen (like with ferrous electrodes) you hit a ceiling pretty quickly. I proved this by purchasing a 200CF tank of hydrogen (compressed hydrogen is always para because it has passed through the liquid state) from the welding shop and feeding various flows and pressures into a 3.0 fuel injected's intake manifold. (the vehicle was running in open loop - no o2 sensor - so the gas/air mixture was a control/constant) By seeping in .2 CF per minute at 5 psi (on the regulator) I got a 50% rise in rpms. By seeping as much as 45 CF per minute at 40 psi I got the exact same result.

Distilled water sermon: I can't stress enough how far behind experimentation is and how inconsistent results are in this arena because folks refuse to go spend 60 cents on a gallon of distilled water... I hear that Sears is selling a distiller... I just cringe every time I see the word tap water in the same paragraph as electrolysis or hydrogen...

Thanks for keeping the good word out ther concerning this type of technolog. For me, I've decided that the 70's are over and I'm latching onto the tried and true stuff and continuing my mods from there. My next experiment will involve the pulse stuff, using high voltage (I'm hoping 10,700Hz/10,700v) to feed the electrolysis unit that is part of the Aquatune Plus unit.

[Joseph]

[Joseph]

[Joseph]

[Joseph]

1 more thing for glenn_aircooled concerning spacing:

Popular Mechanics tested the Aquatune and made the mistake I mentioned above. In the article, if you find it and read it, note that the writer complains that the 18" of hose included in the kit wasn't enough to reach his intake. They always include too much, so that you can halve it and use the leftover for a changeout later. The instructions included with each kit recommend a 6" distance from the outlet of the processor/reactor to the entry point on the manifold or carb. This certainly wouldn't have required the writer to run out and buy his own hose. I was surprised that Pop Mechanics would be guilty of such an obvious mistake until I realized that the magazine's ultimate owners have oil interests.

[d-technic2000]

[d-technic2000]

TYPO: 29,000 psi (7+ tons per square inch!!!)

Should be: 29,000 psi (14+ tons per square inch!!!)

[kevinsatterfield]

d-technic2000,

It wuld be really interesting to see a project page on your studdies and expieriments...are you able to do so????

[weggl]

Hey, Bhaas tried your click on for Bob'c pics keep getting server taking too long to load?
Weggl