How much hydroxy (lpm) is good/bad 4 boosting gas engine?

[needanswer]

[glenn_aircooled]

[glenn_aircooled]

[needanswer]

[glenn_aircooled]

We did a car at work which had O2 sensor. It resulted in more power
but did not save gasoline. Observationally (looking at the exhaust ) it
had richened it up because was much blacker.
We have almost finished building the Very simple EFI O2 sensor
offsetting device....Bob Boyce found it.
http://better-mileage.com/memberadx.html
It isnt that hard to build - I am only slightly able to do electronic work,
but had never built on Vero board before. Found it fun, confusing at first
but once you get going , no problems.
I tried hard to keep it neat, but being first timer , it tended to get all bunched
up in certain areas. Would you like pic & send to your email.?

[Bob Boyce]

[needanswer]

[AntDavison]

have a little sachs wankel air cooled motor running on hydrox (no carburettor, no atmospheric air inducted) ... it has electronic magneto ignition, and i didnt want to go behind the flywheel and mess with the timing ... it wouldnt start nor run on pure hydrox, but by adding some petrol into the bubbler (the petrol is lighter than water, so it floats on top) the hydrox picks up a small amount of the petrol as it bubbles through, motor starts fine and runs on the stock ignition timing

ant

[glenn_aircooled]

[Bob Boyce]

[AntDavison]

hiya glenn et al,

at the moment setup is a little primitive, i have a jaycar mp-3090 powersupply (switch mode 3v - 15v, 40A) running at about 6v 40A into my chopper then into my cell ... it takes a couple of minutes to get the cell up to 30psi, then it will run the motor for 30s or so ... so need to build some bigger electrolysers to run the thing continuosly, but its a start

think regulating the pressure to the sachs 9hp motor will improve the length of time the motor runs for

the sachs has no electrical output, only a single ignition coil behind the flywheel

am getting a bosch 100A alternator next week from a holden (GM to our american friends), so might try that meyer circuit (http://waterpoweredcar.com/pdf.files/D14.pdf) to drive the alternator's rotor and run that initially from a 5hp electric motor, then once thats going, try powering the alternator from a 6.5 hp 4-stroke

happy dubbing aussie glen (my daily driver is a 1776cc '66 ghia with thirsty quad dellorto 36's)

ant : - )

[Joseph]

Multiple things I can say:

With Parahydrogen I hit a max of .2 - .3 CFM before I ceilinged out. Now that was pure stuff, not hydroxy, but the way I understand it, parahydrogen really implodes and is primarily helping to fully vaporize the fuel because it burns so quickly - no matter how it burns - , which I think is why the negative timing seems to work for you Glenn. You're engine is fighting itself a little on the way up, but the fuel fully vaporized and burning on the way down is far more powerful than the initial parahydrogen "ultraspark" or the initial few moments of gasoline burn that are still seeing the gas vaporize more and more.

Everything I've read points to the presence of ferrous metals helping to catalyze the ortho and monotomic into diatomic parahydrogen. I really wish I could talk you into finding some plates that don't contain any iron or derivitives to use instead so that you could end up with less parahydrogen and see if it's combustion will let you advance as far as my 454 has let me to find the peak.

... which is what brought me over to this thread tuning and specifically - timing -

obviously the newer cars are ajusting their timing all the time. On the Scanguage I have seen the 96 plymouth 3.3L advance as far as 19 degrees when I throw the unit on it. When I'm working with the 454, when I get the timing just right I'm pegging 13mpg. If I change the fuel or hydroxywater feed in any significant way and I don't reset the timing I lose my efficiency and run 11.5mpg's even if what I've done in the mean time should cause the fuel to vaporize more easily. Before I run off to mount a step motor and worm gear on the side of my distributor to dial it in on the fly I can't help but wonder if there's another way. After all the cheapest method would be to stop 15 miles down the road from each fillup as I drive cross country and reset the timing again... ???????????????

... o2 sensors were a major nemesis to me until I got a handle on how to reign their potential in. In newer models it is not quite this easy, but often in the newer models other sensors take over for the o2 sensor so you don't have to mess with it anyway. It's those pre-ODBII cars that are the worst about hydroxy.
On the 88 300ZX
1st: I tried a simple potentiometer from radio shack. I just ditched the o2 sensor all together and fed 12V through the potentiometer straight into the sensors "sensor" wire. Then I dialed it in. I'm trying to remember, I think I was using a 20Ohm potentiometer... anyway I was able to dial in my mix with this for idling. I also hooked up a multimeter to the real o2 sensor signal and monitored it on the dash so I could see what the real reading was. Answer: The o2 sensor DOES provide on the fly information that helps the car figure out the injector rate for different throttle positions and rpms, thus you can't just force feed a signal
2nd: I found the eagle-research plans and decided that $60 wasn't that much for such a little trick (after all an 02 sensor costs that much) and I tried that, very cool, very consistent, but very touchy to get setup. I'd still suggest monitoring the o2 sensors signal with a voltmeter over a period of time. AlaskaStar told me about the "ProComp Stoich gauge" recently which if it's cheap enough (i haven't looked because I'm in carb land right now) would be a cool addition to and o2 sensor modifier - I'd put one on the real sensor signal and one on the modified sensor signal. I had trouble finding a cheap guauge that would show some detail between 100mv and 1v and yet let the signal jump to 12v if things were really screwy.
3rd: the timing will still be off - I've proven at least to myself that changing the mix directly affects the best timing for fuel efficiency by 10 or 20 %. This is no big deal on the 300ZX because it is a manual distributor that has electronic advance and mechanical advance and I can fool it up to about 10 degrees (plenty so far with the shoddy MAF sensor it has) BUT on the minivans with their flicted coil blocks I havent the faintest idea of how to fool the timing.

Less than perfect timing will keep you from 50-80% mpg gains, but not from 25% mpg gains. Note that this is the threshold of the money back guarantee on the aquatune unit that I run while their testimonials page is filled with folks average 50% or better. From what I've seen with my own eyes now, I think that an engine that is either properly tuned by it's computer using knock and combustion temperature sensors or it's mechanic using new or old methods can achieve 100% gains with hydroxywater.

[scotts]

[Joseph]

[Joseph]