Low energy Input, mass hydrogen output methods in use.

[BillyHydrogen]

ok jebus I will take some pictures of one of them that is a tracker tomorrow and post it, Basically find some cheap metal barn siding, cut some pop cans in half, go to a window replacement company and get all the old aluminum storms they took out, (you will have to pay the installers the going rate of aluminum cause they break all the glass and turn the aluminum frames in for money, Just pay them double and they will have heaps of windows for you in no time hehe. plus they will usually drop it off for you too )you can get a truck load of storm windows for about $20.make a frame, Rivet the cans to the siding , Paint it black, insulate it, silicone the glass in. Make it a tracker if you want, I wouldnt, just size it to heat real well in the sun and thats it. in the direct sunlight my panel 4x6 prototype will get 185 f starting from 0 f in about 2 minutes and put out 250 cfm of 110 f air with 50 f entering the panel...Rockin huh?

[AlaskaStar]

I see both sides also.

now this is not a riddle:

2 dissimilar metals in an electrolyte set up an electric charge.

when this charge is drawn out, there is a dissociation of metals into the electrolyte.

when the surface of the metals touch each other, the charge SHORTS, and the dissociation accelerates RAPIDLY.

Large SURFACE area in a SMALL SPACE greatly accelerates this hydrogen liberation.

Voltage Potential across both electrodes is COMPLETELY IRRELEVANT.

the reaction is a cascade reaction.

Read the thread. this has been said MANY TIMES. it is not a riddle, it is not a poem, and it is not a puzzle. put it together.

in reading this i do not get mad, or insulted, but it is however frustrating that the simplicity of it, and nobody has gone out and tried to find out and see for themselves.

i did exactly this on the 3rd floor office of the Diamond Center, Anchorage, in the office of a potential investor, he did not believe until he saw for himself that i was NOT putting power of any type into the clear container. i was not even putting heat into it. the hydrogen produced was lit and "popped" in a small fireball.

now for the Spooning:

Materials:

2 dissimilar METALS (sorry but plastic doesn't count)

1 CLEAR GLASS JAR.

1 LITER of SULFURIC ACID

introduce the 2 metal electrodes in similar configuration to an electrolysis setup. now SHORT THEM OUT. OPEN YOUR EYES AND WATCH WHAT HAPPENS.

figure out how this works, and you will have figured out that there are many more ways to make fuel than widely published in books.

you will also have figured out (FOR THOSE WHO ACTUALLY PUT THEIR HANDS TO WORK ON SOMETHING OTHER THAN A KEYBOARD AND TRY THIS) that i am not full of crap, but that i do speak truth.

you can accomplish this in many ways:

MAGNETIC HARMONICS

PULSED DC ELECTROLYSIS

METAL DISSOCIATION

REMOVAL OF THE COVALENT BONDS THAT HOLD WATER TOGETHER

HEAT (SUPER STEAM CRACKING)

VIBRATIONS AND ELECTROLYSIS

BRUTE FORCE ELECTROLYSIS

etc...etc...etc..etc...

like i said, there's so many ways to make hydrogen, that the number is far greater than the ways to skin cats.

in fact there's so many ways to make hydrogen that i cannot possibly know or list them all. but like i said, i have my preference to the ways i do it, and likewise those who have their preference is not for me to bash or say that they are full of crap.

Bob Boyce has his reasons for not releasing his technology, you all seem to resepct his reasons, is it too much to ask that you respect mine?

Maybe if the board was treated as FOR EDUCATIONAL PURPOSES ONLY, as posted on the first page, in which you obviously had to SCROLL past to click the link to get HERE, then we would be learning, not demanding the answers.

I can HONESTLY say that i have learned a few things here too. that is not a difficult thing to say. we can learn something every day. there's some really ingenious ways thought of here for a back-flash arrestor for example is a great idea using a bubbler to stop a flame front. i use a SPRING LOADED CHECK VALVE. i had good fortune enough to know where to look for the type that are mass produced and work quite well and are made for the safety of humans from back-flashing of flammable gasses.

Please think about it. to work together in the way of science i have learned there are a few types out there. the type i despise are those who, when an idea is bounced off them and before they even think about it, look at it, and see if there is an improvement to put on it and throw back, they take it, floor it, and FORCE their "better" ways upon you. i'm not saying that everybody is that way.

i have encountered those who can receive an idea, spin it about for a while, improve on it, and bounce it back. when this starts happening, there is a great deal accomplished and a great number of good ideas come out of it.

I have also learned that the singlemost powerful word in the english Dictionary is the word "IF" for without it, there would be no "WHAT IF?"
and likewise this board would simply NOT exist. there would be no further advancements in science and life would GET BORING, and STAY BORING.



AlaskaStar

[Jebus]

I have zero respect for people like Bob Boyce. You know why? Because if infact he did design something of such great value to humanity what is stoping him from releasing it for public use? If its not just flat out greed and patent rights, is it that he is afraid for his life? Wouldn't releasing the information be the better choice even in that situation? But regardless, I want to really thank you for the information, and once again im sorry that I cannot better express my point of view.

[mrgalleria]

I just ran out to my "lab" and did the following- Poured about 10 oz. sulphuric acid (drain cleaner with buffers) into a glass jar, added one electrode of lead (fishing weight), one electrode of aluminum (alum. screen), 30 volts; after a few moments provided a short (allowed the two electrodes to make contact). No reaction could be attained.

[Jebus]

I would like to apologize for the wording the above statement. I do not mean that I lack respect for Bob Boyce as a person or as a member of the OU community, but instead lack respect for his choice to deny such information to the public when it could potentially be so extremely valuable to everyone.

[Cryptonic26]

One of my first experiments with hydrogen generation was similar to the above procedure.

As a forward, I didn't read everything in this thread.. I just got here! I will in the next day or so though.

What I did was use Iron(steel) and aluminum fencing wire. Made an AL coil around an Iron core. put about a 16th of an inch between the coil and the core.

I was shocked to see the bubble flow pour off this system when I added a small voltage. Even more shocked to see the bubbles continue pouring off this system when I removed the voltage. (short wasn't even necessary).

Then I realized that it worked with fractional voltages. I didn't take note at the time, because I wasn't aware that this was strange.

It didn't take me long to see that the system was consuming the metals though. Sheets of Al oxide will fall off the coil after a while, and the whole cell gets gunked up with iron hydroxide (or is it oxide? I'm no chemist, but it's blue until it touches the surface of the cel)

After removing the voltage, the cell would continue producing for up to 6 hours. the first hour seems to be at full production, then a gradual falloff over the next five.

If you had a good filtering mechanism the system might be worth an extra look, but my little experiment just made a mess... and some H2 at apparently little cost.

I'm still not sure what this means.. honestly, I have little idea of what was going on inside that cell, other than it's setup like a wet cel battery.

Dont ask for exact measurements.. I dont have them, I didnt think to take them at the time either.

[AlaskaStar]

that blue color, if you had used Sulfuric Acid, is IRON SULFATE. more specifically the IRON 2 ion. Iron 3 which is harder releases a PURPLE color. i do not remember the Iron 1 color, or even if it can be bought commercially as IRON 1.

this is the reaction:

H2SO4 + Fe + Al = H2 + FeSO4 + Al

see the short liberates the Hydrogen from the sulfuric acid.

look up how sulfuric acid is made. lots of power generated in a very neat process.

now look up the uses for IRON SULFATE. look at the value of it per pound.
now look at the hydrogen production.

TRY OTHER MATERIALS.

USED THE "EDISON SCIENTIFIC METHOD" which is: "I'm gonna try every darned thing till I get what I want!"

don't limit your mind to 1 or 2 materials. TRY THEM ALL.

limiting your mindset to small peices limits your possibility for success.

keep that in mind.

AlaskaStar

[Dan Dan]

[Jebus]

[Dan Dan]

[Jebus]

“does not have to be any particular material, a good conductor, not necessarily magnetic, but CHEAP and easy to get, difficult to dispose of in large amounts. the stuff I use is given to me freely, truckloads at a time, and I sell it when I am done to the recyclers for approximately $10 per TON. driving to the shipyard isn't even worth it, except that I need to dispose of it.”

Catalyst:

"catalyst" is SOLID, it is a common material, and using it leaves a "by-product" that is very heavy, has a specific gravity of 1.83.

this is funny because the materials that i use for the catalyst, i have found seem to be a BIG waste issue aound here, especially in the construction industry. they can't get rid of it.

Chemicals:
NO hydrochloric acid or aluminum or oxides of aluminum, no oxides of any other metal, no ammonia, no nitrates, no chlorine, no muriatic acid, no citric acid no clay

the chemical is cheap and easy to get. about $1.00 per gallon

it's not the water I am splitting, however, it is a vital part of the process.

Research the following:
H2SO4 manufacturing
Edison Cell & why it failed
Valence charts, electrical valences, Grams per Amp Hour vs. Amp Hours Per Gram

SOME EARLY CONSTRUCTION IDEAS WITH POSSIBLE SUPPLY SOURCES:

“If you look at page 532 in General Chemistry by Linus Pauling, you'll see a graph of some common metals and elements and their electron potentials. As you noticed, F is way negative, between -2.5 & -3. Now notice that Ca is just as far positive, and Mg is close enough, about 2.25+ to 2.30+.

If I'm not mistaken, with an electrolyte that should make a cell of 5 - 6 volts.

We know when sulfuric acid attacks a metal, we get hydrogen. (Anyone with actual chemistry experience, feel free to jump right in.) So we should get Ferrous sulfate and calcium sulfate by adding sulfuric acid to either or both metals. Since both are so close to equal and opposite values from the zero line, it should only take half as much energy to regenerate one side or the other with current.

Let's build a polycarbonate box with an ionic membrane separating the box into two compartments. Lets put calcium oxide in one side and iron oxide in the other. May as well insert a couple stainless-steel electrodes/plates as contact points, one in each side.” (oxides do not agree with above statement NO oxides of any other metal yet alaskastar seemed to respond to thrivals post as if he hit the nail right on the head. Alaskastar then didnt post for a while after)
Calcium Oxide (also called quicklime)
CAS Number: 1305-78-8
eBay: 100 grams for $3.99
Gallade Chemicals: 1kg for $87.00

Iron Oxide (I believe it's Iron(II) Oxide; used in thermite; harder to find)
CAS Number: 1345-25-1
eBay: 100 grams for $3.99
Gallade Chemicals: N/A

I wouldn't spend so much on pure stuff. I bought CaOx at ACE Hardware (it's called "Yardright Multi-purpose quicklime), 25lbs. for about $12 bucks.

As we all know, iron oxide is simply rust. Has to be a cheaper source. Scrap yards? Just realized something; the ultimate goal chemical is iron sulfate. You can probably buy that directly, just like you can buy calcium sulfate (gypsum powder/plaster of paris/gypsum/Ca-H2SO4) or you can make your own iron sulfate by mixing iron filings with the acid. Since steel is mostly iron, lathe waste might work.

sulphuric acid at auto supply stores like Autozone

as far as getting your iron oxides,try harbor freight or graingers or any place that sells sandblasting materials.iron oxide and aluminium oxide is used as a abrasive for sand blasting as well as silica sand.it can be bought in 50-200lbs bags for cheep.

Yardright Hydrated lime, $12.50/25lb. bag (ACE Hardware)
Iron powder from Connelly-GPM, Inc., Chicago, IL. Sorry
all mine have been free samples, don't have a price.

10% sulfuric acid is the electrolyte


ANOTHER EARLIER POST ON POSSIBLE CONSTRUCTION

I have been studying the many postings on this subject for awhile now. Have not fabricated anything yet because I am in process of moving (job transfer) across the U.S. I plan on building a prototype soon (have started purchasing the materials) but want to re-cap everything I have learned and the important points covered in this forum before building (want to increase my chances of success by leveraging all you smart people).

Following safe practices with Acids and other chemicals...
I plan on taking 3" PCV pipe and configuring them similar to Thrival's drawings for the "Hydrogen Cell", with the exception that I plan on turning it upside down, and eliminating the Nafion membrane (see earlier drawing from Thrival). Think of a capital "H" like configuration.
Gas would be drawn out the top. Down a few inches from this there would be a connection (bridge) between the two cells. This is where the H2SO4 would allow the electric current to pass between each cell to complete the circuit. I am assuming that I don't need a membrane here because the stainless steel electrodes will be below this point, and the FeSO4, FeO and CaSO4, CaO having a heavier specific gravity won't make it "up and over" this bridge. Important point here is to have it higher than the stainless steel electrodes, and not allow bubbles to close this path off (maybe tilt at a slight angle).

I am looking to have the SS electrodes 8" - 10" in length. The bottoms of each cell would be cemented with a PVC cap. The tops of each cell would have a top that I could screw off for assembly/maintenance, etc.

I plan on using 10% - 30% H2SO4 for the electrolyte. Sulfuric Acid and PVC don't have any problems with reacting (see previous posts).

The construction would go something like so...
1.) Cut and glue the 3" PVC cells (bottom and bridge at this time only).
2.) Insert and position the stainless steel electrodes.
3.) Fill the cells with the sulfuric acid electrolyte to be above the bridge (knock out any bubbles)
3.) Fill the Ca cell with the CaO chemical (hydrated lime).
4.) Fill the Fe cell with the FeO chemical.
5.) Cap the cells and direct the hydrogen gas to a bubbler for safety.
6.) Apply voltage to the cells and start "Charge/discharge" cycle.

Future enhancements:
Increase surface area of the SS electrodes.
Introduce a resonant frequency of the SS electrodes to produce CaO and FeO quicker (shakes the chemicals off the electrodes, producing more chemical)


Remaining questions:
What would be the amound of Ca and Fe I would need for each cell?

How do I tell if the chemicals in each cell are saturated to operate at highest efficiency?

When electricity is being applied and we are re-generating the CaO + H2SO4, I am assuming that it re-forms solids and therefore falls to the bottom of the cell, therefore not mixing with the other cell because it can't pass "up and over" the bridge. Is this a correct assumption?


Please shoot holes in the above plan. I am in still in the learning phases, and may have missed some embarrassing big points (very high probability).

I plan on posting pictures to the site as soon as I start construction.

ALSO

Check the designs for the edison cell which is overcharged by .3v and supposedly generates an ok amount of hydrogen, some are in other threads, I guess thrival etc switched momentum over to this design more than the previous.

[Jebus]

that is what i have SO FAR, sorry that its reallllly rough but much better than 35 pages, its what stood out most to me. I still however suggest you read the whole thread through if only skimming, in the first 12 pages or so ALOT is said.

[Cryptonic26]

heh, after reading through this entire thread, I'm seeing a trend in the concepts discussed by AlaskaStar.

To put it simply, free energy, in the sense that you get more energy out than you put in, is well, an impossibility. Heat loss dictates this. Death is the inevitable outcome for all of the universe, simple observation screams this in your face around every corner.

However, AlaskaStar is wired as a business man, this is obvious through the consistency of his language.

Replace the word 'science' with 'economics' in this discussion, and it all makes perfect sense.

All materials have varying degrees of use. This provides ENORMOUS flexibility in defining it's value, or its desirability. The real secret to creating 'free energy' is to play the alchemist, and transmutate unwanted products into wanted products. Lead into Gold if you will.


Sure, Lead has more practical use than Gold.. but that doesn't matter. What matters is that people WANT gold, and they DONT want lead.

If you can run your car on the byproduct of this conversion, then you win.

You see, Money does not work on the same laws as energy. You actually CAN get more money out of something than you put in. This is THE fundamental law of economy.

Of course, all economys are hugely volatile. You've gotta play on the weaknesses of the market if you're plan is to get ahead. This mean that a weakness can instantly turn into a strength in a matter of seconds. With this in mind, I can understand why AlaskaStar is not throwing everything on the table. It wont be what we want to hear, and it could hurt his profits.

To put it simply, I think that AlaskaStar HAS created a system to provide himself with energy at less than material cost. I DON'T think he has tapped into a secret dimension of space-time, to save us all from entropy.

Just putting things into perspective. Please correct me if I'm wrong, Mr AlaskaStar.

[Jebus]

I think that is the whole point, converting energy from one source to another. The concept of "free energy" in most cases doesn't include any breaking of the laws of thermodynamics. The "free" part comes from the fact that you are converting something in abundance into something you need and can utilize.

[Dan Dan]

yup, we seem to have lost thrival and the others (they would be a HUGE help right now) VARY nice outline jebus, thanks bunches! it will help alot.

Alaskastar sounds to me to be a scientist (or extremely cirious scientific person) who has made money off of his accomplishments, and theres certainly nothing wrong with that. He's also given use alot of his time and effort. and i thank him for that.

i found a good site with some nice videos of what seems to be a more complicated pulse DC electrolyser.

http://www.icubenetwork.com/forum/viewt ... sc&start=0