Make an effective electrolyzer

[JF]

Hi everyone,

I am looking to make an effective hydrogen generator cell. What should i consider.

- Number of plates (What does it change ?, more or less)
- Space (What does it change ?)
- Amp
- Volts

i'd like to discuss about that, if anyone can contact me over one of those 2 IM down below


msn : jfdube@sympatico.ca
skype : boday123

Regards all

[OgreOwner]

Hi:

I am going to make the presumption that you want to make a device to get Hydrogen and Oxygen gas from water...

First thing to decide how you want to do it?
Two answers are possible: Conventional or Experimental

Conventional:

If you are going with a conventional electrolyser, then you are going to use DC current and be bound by Faradays Laws. They say that, as long as your voltage is high enough (and there is argument about what that voltage actually is!), the output of your cell is proportional to the number of electrons or amperage you put in. More amps equals more product formed on the electrodes. Simple and easy. It helps if there is an electrolyte in solution - somethng to facilitate the movement of the charge.

To make this kind of device, just put plates in water with a tad of either Sodium Hydroxide (Lye), Acetic Acid (Viegar), or Sulfuric Acid ( Battery Acid). How much to put in is a subject of considerable debate. Put some electroder in the solution (generally stainless steel, sometimes Platinum) hook up a DC power source (battery chargers are a common choice) and BINGO! you will have the evolution of gas. Watch the power meter turn...

I have what is called a Hoffman Apparatus. Funny looking thing. Two tall glass tubes with graduation markings on them that have valves at the top of each column and a piece of glass that joins them near the bottom. Think of an H with the crossmember down at the bottom. The bottom of each tube is sealed with a cork that has a small square of platinum film attached to a wire that goes inside a bit of glass that goes through the rubber stopper. There is also anothter glass tube in the center that joins in the center of the cross member that can be used to keep water in the system. Hook up a source of power and bubbles begin to come off. One side has twice the volume of production of the other side. Concrete demonstration that it is H2O... Works a lot faster if there is some acid in the water. Example of straight Faraday electrolysys

Experimental:

Here is gets really FUN!

Funnest place to look is the patents databases (US, Australia, UK,...).
You can also just surf the net. Lots of fun stuff out there. Some good, some bad. Some right, some wrong. Pay attention to those things that people say they have made and actually worked.

Having something that actually works is not required to get a patent, many patents do NOT work. Take things with a grain of salt before you spend a lot of time and money... (I should take that advice myself..)

Many people have claimed to be able to do Mr. Faraday one better.

Some claim that magnetic fields help the molecules line up and thus lessen the energy needed to make the water molecule come apart.

Some claim that strong electromagentic fields will do the same thing.

Most say that nickel or Platinum on your electrodes will help - this is reasonable since they are in the same family on the Periodic Table and both are known for catalytic action (especially Platinum - that is why it is the active ingredient in a Catalytic Converter). One claims that his mix of metals liberates gas that burns after the stuff is in the water for a while...

Some say to use pulsed DC, others say to use AC. Frequency and voltages are at issue. Some say use this charge carrier, others say use no charge carriers.

Some say there is a resonant frequency. Find it and BOOM!

Do you get the idea that there are a lot of ideas out there? and that they sometimes confilct with each other?

Pick your poison and what you want to try.

Cautions:

Most every method WILL make Hydrogen and Oxygen from Water.

YOU CAN KILL YOURSELF AND OTHERS IF YOU SCREW UP!

A little balloon filled with the proper mix ( 2:1), combined with a spark make a LOUD explosion that can damage your hearing.

Hydrogen burns in an almost invisible flame if the supply is constant and it is HOT! Good way to get 3rd degree burns. OUCH!

Oxygen enhanaces the combustion properties of just about anything - Remember with a moment of reverence the Apollo capsule that burned everything and everybody inside with just one spark. Three lives lost because of Oxygen and lots of velcro glued everywhere.

Hydrogen is not the easiest thing to store. Use it NOW or don't generate it.

Hopefully this has educatee and amused you a bit.

Ogre
Former Chemistry Teacher.
Tinkerer and Geek

[JF]

Hi, mr teacher


the thing i want to do is use it now, as you said, i can make hydrogen from AL + NaOH, but it is a chain reaction till there is no more aluminum in the solution. I like the way that electrolysis do the job because you can have both H2 and O2 and get these element "on demand", but the thing is, that it consumme energy. I want to make an electrolyzer that is effective. I see plenty of over the internet, people are using multiple plate cell, and i want to know why they do that and what does it change to put x number of plates. What is the advantages or disadvantage of having more or less plates in the cell.

[mrgalleria]

I have found that in considering the number of plates, you need to design the rest of your system accordingly. Too many plates, and you just diffuse your energy and end up with the same output as if you used fewer plates. I suggest first design everything else, and then start adding plates in a temporary container, in consideration also is the plate dimensions.

[mrgalleria]

I have also noticed that not all of the hydrogen emissions are easily observed visually in the form of bubbles. In intense backlight I have seen a fine smoky vapor also rising from the fluid. As for adding plates in a temp. container, I used alligator clips, and glued slivers of plastic tubing to the plates for spacing.

[JF]

[mrgalleria]

On the board I used the negetive pulsed current flowed through the circuit from or to one plate, and positive connected directly to one plate. I found that another plate set next to the pulsed plate (but with no wire attached) seemed to scavenge free energy in the form of bubble emission (though less). So you could use 2 or 3 plates in sequence. From your question I was not sure you understood that the plates should be sequened, +-+-+-, not +++---. The plates I used were thin stainless 3"x3.5" cut from the cover of an inoperative magic chef microwave from Costco. I am certain my experience is very limited compared to the veterans on this site, so I suggest any input they provide will probably have more value than what I can contribute.

[AlaskaStar]

mrgalleria:

ANY information, even if you accidentally make a mistake in the context of the information is good, we can all contribute something. this is (in my opinion) not a "perfection party" whereas everything MUST be perfect. I view this as a place to learn and share information. there are those who watch this site closely even if they do not ever post anything, they do watch. and likewise there are those who do post maybe 1 time, asking a simple question. as they are probably building something and needed a little clarification.

How's the Weather is Hawaii?

AlaskaStar

[mrgalleria]

Alaskastar, I agree with you that any effort- including what may appear to be mistakes- has benefits. I guess most of us have observed that many great results have occurred accidentally as history has recorded.
Although I am new at this sort of experimentation, I am ambitiously seeking a satisfactory result and probably won't stop until success is acheived.
Stanley Meyer wrote about instantanious explosion of water
( f6.grp.yahoofs.com ). The site named after him, Stanleymeyer.com has a link to pages that detail how to do it. It is one of the easier systems.
I have begun work on this system. A inverter is used and I have purchased one but I am now thinking about using a alternator converted to run 120 driven by an electric motor (heater motor) or the engine for the reason that it will be cheaper for others to duplicate. Converting the alternator appears to be simple.
I have already modified the spark plugs as per thrivals project page, but installing them with the thick #12 wire in the tapered holes of the buick 305 is a small challenge.
Also of note if anyone has not seen these pages- joecell.com.au/index.html (joe cell) and pureenergysystems.com (geet device).

[mrgalleria]

p.s. The alternator conversion can be found at http://members.1stconnect.com/anozira/S ... rnator.htm (Alternator Secrets).

[JF]

Did you do the frequency generator of stanley meyer