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OUPower.com • View topic - Low energy Input, mass hydrogen output methods in use.

Low energy Input, mass hydrogen output methods in use.

This forum is for discussions regarding Hydrogen Production by all means OTHER than Electrolysis. It is also for discussing the end results of Hydrogen Applications such as Water Engines & Water Cars.

Postby kww » Sun Sep 04, 2005 10:38 am

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Postby eco » Sun Sep 04, 2005 11:47 am

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Postby kww » Sun Sep 04, 2005 11:29 pm

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Postby Orange_Crusader » Mon Sep 05, 2005 11:41 am

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Postby eco » Mon Sep 05, 2005 12:31 pm

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Postby Nixxk » Mon Sep 05, 2005 2:04 pm

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Postby Ronald_raygun » Mon Sep 05, 2005 2:41 pm

If you give a man some fire, he will be warm for just a day.

If you set a man on fire he will be warm for the rest of his life.
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k

Postby kevinsatterfield » Mon Sep 05, 2005 3:49 pm

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Postby eco » Mon Sep 05, 2005 5:35 pm

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Electolysis Device Size

Postby Bamboo » Wed Sep 07, 2005 1:15 am

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Postby Orange_Crusader » Wed Sep 07, 2005 6:41 pm

Thrival, I got a message saying that your email account is no longer active, and my message got returned. Do you have another address of way I can contact you?

Bamboo, that seems really, really high for usage, but since I haven't looked it up yet, I'm not sure. A liter of gas is about 1700L (a bit more, actually) of gas vapour, which is what burns. Assuming an high-average (and pretty bad mileage of 10L/100km, counting large trucks and the such, a car gets a kilometer using up 0.1L of liquid gas, or about 170L of vapour. With an average smaller car (the kind with a 2.0L engine, uses about 85L of vapour. Avergae highway speed of about 100km/h, gives us an hour to produce that much fuel, at a rate of about 1.5L per minute. Nt counting precentage of gas burned, etc. That's a lot of H2 to produce, even if we count that H2 is more powerful, and we'll be supplying some O2, but the rest will come from outside the car (this reaction (Fe and Ca), produces, combining the two, 4 moles of H2 per one mole of O2, so we'll need to supply another mole (16g) of O2 ourselves per mole of H2 burned, to burn a perfect 100% (or as close as we can get) of the gas produced.

They normally calculate mileage as stop and go traffic, however, and most cars spend nearly all of their time running at 2000-2500 RPM's, not very far above idle, where use is lower. We will need to supply at higher RPM's as well, and that's where the storage tank/bubbler come into play. Speaking of which, it will need to be fairly large (10L or so, or a combination of smaller containers). Gas has an advantage that it's in liquid form to start with, and stored as such. We work solely (so far) with a gas, and face larger storage problems. Storing the hydrogen in metal hydrides is an option, although a slightly heavy one. It does solve the problem of on-demand hydrogen, though. We can keep the hydrides "charged" all the time, and recharge them while driving, and while stopped. Current hydride systems have a range of about 350 miles of 5 NOS (yes, Fast and the Furious) sized tanks, filled beforehand. If we can at least partially refill the tanks while driving, we should be able to increase the range to a thousand miles, without stopping. When stopped, the hydrogen cells can be made to continue production until the hydride tanks are full, then automatically shut off. Anyone else like this idea? :)
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Postby pertyfly » Wed Sep 07, 2005 7:05 pm

It sounds like a decent idea to me. But, how will you get the power when stopped to refill? I mean, your battery won't really last that long while producing this. It will get drained quite fast. You would always need to plug it in, or have some other source of power. But, I definitely like that, and think with a bit more thought it could be an interim solution, possibly.

K, but one problem I have with the calcs. You were calculating the power/mileage in gasoline vapor? Remember, when your car is running, it is terribly inefficient. A lot of gasoline hits the cylinders as a liquid, NOT a gas (for cooling purposes, and "unfixable" inneficiencies) So, you must also account for the fact a GOOD amount of fuel calculated in the mileage is used just to cool your piston/cylinder surfaces by absorbing heat, and slowly burn through the power stroke. Also, some of it doesn't burn at all, and that's where the cat comes in, etc. And some of that also gets through and polutes everything. I know it gets quite minute at that point, but I'm just saying.

Hydrogen is not only more powerful for the same amount of vapors of gasoline, but it also will not have all of that waste fuel to cool the cylinders. That's where I believe you definitely have to run water injection, in order to cool the engine from such a "lean" but efficient condition.
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Postby thrival » Wed Sep 07, 2005 7:50 pm

Oh yah, me like. thrival at graffiti dot net still seems to work on
this end, or thrival57 at yahoo dot com, but I hardly ever remember
to check that one.
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Postby thrival » Wed Sep 07, 2005 8:00 pm

pertyfly:

The facts you mention are helpful. That's why it
would make sense to me, to learn from S1R9's
watercar file, that vaporous water inhaled via
engine intake, may 1. cool the piston,
2. expand rapidly into steam at each
explosion, 3. reduce the amount of hydrogen
necessary to run the vehicle. If this is true
then conventional calculations of the amount
of hydrogen required, would not apply.
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Postby pertyfly » Thu Sep 08, 2005 1:06 am

Exactly, that's my point.

I honestly believe that combining water injection with electrolysis would put things quite a bit further ahead than they are now. I see huge promise in that. As soon as I get things settled down a bit, that is one of my next projects. Even running through a bubbler does help slightly (though not NEARLY enough).

I'm sure you all notice how much better your car runs in rainy/humid weather....that's why. (water expansion/steam)

I am definitely going to try the gasoline bubbler as well, as I can't see it pulling much vapor, just a bit. And I can't help it but think it would help.
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