water resonant frequency formulae?

[darnoldrs]

[SeaMonkey]

[darnoldrs]

[kevinsatterfield]

[darnoldrs]

[kevinsatterfield]

[darnoldrs]

[darnoldrs]

Found it at last. This is the fourmula i know i seen somewhere, Page 8 in the ravi/ myres cell thread.
Posted: Mon Aug 27, 2007 1:08 am Post subject:

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Check this post for the same thread in overunity.com ....this could be of help!! Im pasting it here for reference:








Ravi,

Do you know the approximate frequency at which you are applying the square wave pulses to your WFC?



The reason why is related to some research I did with a well known 'water as a fuel' research group.....


Here was the crux of my interesting finding:

The findings are based on this youtube video from Dave Lawton: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=miwbvsya3Ek , WATCH IT!


[4/1/2007 3:40:25 PM] Tao says:
Just doing a simple calculation a tube in plain fresh water, the equation from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acoustic_resonance shows f=(n*v)/(2*L) where n corresponds to the harmonic, v is the speed of sound in the water, and L is the length of the tube....

So, lets simplify this equation, n can be always 1, v is 1435 m/s in fresh water according to Wikipedia.

So, f = (1*1435)/(2*L) = 717.5 / L = f , Just for fun, lets take the frequency Dave was producing Hydroxy at in his latest video on Youtube: 3425.781Hz

So, 3425.781 = 717.5 / L , L = 717.5 / 3425.781 = 0.21 meters , So that would be 8.27 inches long.... So, how long in inches are Dave's tubes? Just curious........


[4/2/2007 11:26:20 PM] Tao says:
So, I asked how long Dave's tubes were, well, I looked up how long they were from an old post Dave did on the original forum back in 2004...


[4/2/2007 11:26:44 PM] Tao says:
Dave said that his tubes were about 12.5-13cm (which is about 5 inches long)


[4/2/2007 11:27:39 PM] Tao says:
so, calculating that into the equation: 717.5 / L = f , we have 717.5 / 0.1275 = f , so f = about 5650Hz


[4/2/2007 11:28:21 PM] Tao says:
So, based on what it says at the END of that video on youtube, it says that the hydroxy was being produced at 3425.78Hz


[4/2/2007 11:29:00 PM] Tao says:
BUT, they acoustic frequency came out to be 5650Hz, so I said, 'oh, too bad' seems there isn't much of a connection, I guess I need to
do more research'


[4/2/2007 11:29:10 PM] Tao says:
UNTIL, I just watched that video again..........


[4/2/2007 11:29:50 PM] Tao says:
Look at what Dave was pulsing his DC at in the video: 5714Hz!!!!
At 1:11 in the video you can see what he was pulsing at.......


[4/2/2007 11:30:58 PM] Tao says:
Based on the equation for acoustic resonance, Dave was pulsing his tubes at the EXACT frequency at which those tubes will resonate ACOUSTICALLY in FRESH WATER...



So, my finding was basically this:

Dave found the BEST gas production at the VERY SAME frequency that just so happens to be where his tubes resonate ACOUSTICALLY IN WATER... HMMM...

Maybe it is nothing at all but a coincidence, but maybe there is just something to it........................
« Last Edit: August 26, 2007, 09:02:47 PM by tao »

Now to do some calcualtions for myself and see where i am at.

[darnoldrs]

OK. For thoes that are good at phisics, tell me if i have gone wrong.
I have came to a resonant frequency of water to be 454.1775 kHz.
speed of sound in water to be 1435m/s.
1435000mm/1.58mm(tube spacings)=908227.8481
Tis is how many time a sound wave can travel from inner tube to the outer tube. This gives half a cycle so it then takes the same time to travle back again so we devide 908227.8481 by 2 to give us the resonant frequency which should be 454113.924Hz approxamatly
or 454.113924kHz.
that is a very high frequency, to high to get a 18" long 3/4" tube to resonate at so if we pick a harmonic of that frequency, say the 8th or 10th octave and tune the tube to that frequency, then fire the tubes with that same frequency or any of the octaves of 454.113924kHz, that should be in resonance.
Does that sound feasible or have a done a wrong calculation somewhere??

[darnoldrs]

Knowing radio theroy and electronic theroy i know that the higher the frequency the more efficent capacitors, inductors and transformers work so this may be on the right path.

[darnoldrs]

Or maybe the the capacitance of the cell somwhere near a tuned LC tuned circuit around that frequency maybe. I havent yet worked out that capacitance or inductance it would require thou.
I know this is a lot higher frequency than most have been using up untill now but it is worth a shot. I have a couple of 50w HF radios that maybe able to be tuned down that low. I have been out of electronics for over 7 years now so my memory is getting a little hazy at what frequency things opperate on.

[kevinsatterfield]

the resonace frequency you computed... if its 454Khz and thats its resonating frequency.... I'd drop the Khz and go for 454Hz. Wuld that make it 1 for every 10? When you wannna pump that 454Khz to keep it go'n.Kinda like when you hold a tube and hit it and it starts ringing at its resonante frequency... you donthave to hit it atthat frequency but just ever so often to keep it ringing at its resonate frequency.

[darnoldrs]

That was basicly what i was thinking. how ever i would like to try hitting it with the 454kHz and see what i got also
The hamonics from what i remember work like1/8th wave, 1/4 wave, 1/2, full, then i guess any multapal of the wave length.
If your frequency is not exactly right, the signal in and the resonant frequency will get out of alignment and cancel each other out. To keep things at resonance, if you fed a pulsed dc signal in for about 100cycles then off for that length of time, than you would only have to be close enough to the frequency to keep it within 1/4 wave/cycle to mantain resonance, then let off, to stabilise, then feed the pulsed DC in again, resetting the alignment again. If you incorparate a LC circuit then it would help keep it resonating (but declining) after the pulsed DC has been removed, and being tuned will not stray from resonance.
Or maybe just charg the coil once, then let the LC circuit ring for a couple of cycles, then charge again, Then it may not be super critical of the frequency you feed in
The more i think about it, If you are running at 10x the wave length the tuned frequency of the tubes may not be overly critical, or if they are critical, then it will be very, very hard to get them right.
Well i guess i will just have to start building a WFC now as i have most of the gear, and see what happens, but i just thought i would bounce a few ideas around to see what i get back. Thanks, David

[darnoldrs]

If you are using the WFC as the C in an LC circuit, it would also be very hard to tune it as the WFC capacitance would change with temp, frequency and water used. you would need to have some sort of adjustment, like switching in capacitors to compensate for any changes.
Being honest, even if this is the key, it would be very difficalt to fluke it just right to get it to work.

[kevinsatterfield]

control the inviroment so it has a WORKING temperature and all that......