Thrival.
I read your Joe Cell section of your project page.
Im wondering if youve ever build or tested a Joe cell.
or, for that matter, if anyone thats reading this has. I'd like to know more about the construction of one of these Joe cells, how you controll your engine/ vehicle speed once its working, and other things. I liked your explantion of how it may work on HV.
open for general discussion of the joe cell
Thrival... Joe Cell
20 posts
• Page 1 of 2 • 1, 2
by thrival » Wed Sep 06, 2006 2:31 am
Dan Dan:
Sorry to take so long answering, I just found your post.
Yes I've built a Joe Cell, well sort of. The cost for materials is kind
of high. You see I have a strategy to this OU stuff. Study is free, so
I do as much as I can, and then some more. The more principles and
understanding you have of a thing, the cheaper and better ways you
can find to execute an idea. I'm not at this to impress anyone and
that leaves some folks deflated 'cause they wanna see something.
Well I'm diligently working at it. Lyzers don't really interest me cause
they take up a lot of space; distilled water is only free when it rains,
and water as fuel freezes in the winter (where I live anyway.)
Now as far as the Joe Cell, I've downloaded some .txt files from the
first JoeCellFreeEnergyDevice yahoo group. I'm glad I did because they
seem to've been removed. Basically much of it is transcripts from what
Joe said in the videos he made, which aren't readily available here in
the US.
In the transcripts, Joe admitted, i.e. he knows, his device is a capacitor.
It's a little different than most in that it polarizes from outer to inner,
not + - + - ...as would occur if one were to roll a foil plate cap. The
dielectric is water. Lots of folks agonize about the water, if it's from a
pure source, alkaline or acid, getting it to bubble and watching those
to determine when the cell is to 'stage 3,' etc. Joe said plain distilled
water is the best. In fact a government agent brought him water
distilled four times (quad-distilled) and it worked the best. The simple
reason is that distilled water is most dielectric, which is what you want
in a capacitor to store charge. If it conducts at all, it's a poor capacitor.
The dielectric constant of distilled water is 80. that's incredibly high
compared to all known fluids. The only liquids that come close are
formalide and hydrogen cyanide, both highly dangerous and nothing
to fool with, whereas water is perfectly benign.
The charging process precipitates scum from the water to the point
eventually everything is filtered out and removed, it no longer conducts.
The most efficient Joe Cell doesn't bubble at all. We are not trying to
run our car off hydrogen bubbles. That's what lyzers do. This is a
different principle.
The Joe Cell water leaves a certain amount of upper tubes exposed.
That's so the charge can leak up the tubes to the cover. Think about
what we know about HV corona; it leaps from sharp edges to the nearest
grounded surface. The Joe Cell leaks corona, only so low V it's not
visible. The engine is ground. The block and Joe Cell are connected
via an aluminum tube connected to the conical cover of the cell. The AL
tube doesn't quite touch the block, there's a piece of rubber hose
separator the last few inches. Not a problem, static charge can leap
that distance. If the tube actually touched the block it would short to the
cell cover.
Nikola Tesla, Edwin Gray, Henry Moray and Joe, all discovered something
about electricity; there's a hot component and a cold component. The
hot component is electromagnetic in nature, while the cold component is
electrostatic. Cold electricity is what the sun pours upon earth, also what
emits from a tesla coil toroid to ether. Without generalizing too much,
hot electricity will fry you, cold won't. That's not to say that people haven't
been electrocuted by tesla coils, they have. But radiant energy IS cold
electricity, and radiant energy propagates through the ethers different
from EM waves. Radiant, electrostatic energy passes through everything
without even slowing down. This cold electricity will light bulbs brighter
than EM, and Joe claims the bulbs are freezing cold. Edwin Gray even
handled lit bulbs under water, without any fear of electrocution.
So the energy emitting off the tubes of the Joe Cell to the cover is
electrostatic, cold electricity. The hot electricity passes to ground, but
actually no EM flow occurs because the dielectric constant of the water
won't let it. Electrostatic lines of force form from outer to inner, and
electrostatic energy is cold electricity.
Now my understanding beyond this starts to fall apart. I believe the block
gets this cold electric charge, imparts it to the water in the block. The
charged block becomes polarized from outer to inner. Once the block
is polarized, it tends to hold the polarization. It becomes an electret so
to speak. Water loves to receive electricity. that's why you should never
stand in a puddle when changing a light bulb (obvious.)
I believe the air entering the motor gets an opposite charge to the block,
and to the spark which I believe is of the same sign only much higher V.
The oppositely charged air is attracted to the spark and actually causes
the piston to get sucked up towards it. A car running on just a Joe Cell
has to be advanced as much as 75 degrees before TDC. Clearly
there's a pull rather than a push going on here. and because it's a
vacuum, the RPM's can be much higher without the motor flying apart;
and slower to, and according to reports, runs silently (no explosions,
but implosions.)
Back to your original question: "Have I built a Joe Cell." I don't have lots
of bucks so the one i built used ss shimstock similar to Ant Davidson's
"kettle." My first was of spiral config and I learned pretty quick why that
doesn't work. Concentric rings are necessary. I came up with a method
of clips to hold the shimstock rings but the material had tabs and bulges
in places so didn't look clean, straight and orderly. I plugged it in, made
bubbles and precipitated out gunk from Lake Michigan water for about a
week before i realized I was removing the chrome plating from the clip
leads. (Note to self: buy all SS alligator clips.) So I got that far.
then I met Ren, an aussie who has built and run his car on a Joe Cell.
He's sort of the Bob Boyce for the Joe Cell group. Anyway he gave me
some bad news-- Joe Cells freeze in the winter and don't work! Well I
live in the midwest and need mine to work. So I'm currently investigating
other methods for charging water in the block that doesn't require an
external cell. We know the coolant system contains antifreeze and cars
run all winter on petrol. What we need to do is charge the coolant; then
the car will run as if it had a Joe Cell when it doesn't. Note: Joe said once
a car has run on a cell long enough, you can remove the cell entirely and
the car will run without it, even after months of sitting idle!
So I'm plowing ahead, beyond the original cell. I'll share my results when
I have something to report. but if you want to build the standard Joe Cell,
there's plenty of good info on the net you don't need me for.
Hope this is useful to you.
Sorry to take so long answering, I just found your post.
Yes I've built a Joe Cell, well sort of. The cost for materials is kind
of high. You see I have a strategy to this OU stuff. Study is free, so
I do as much as I can, and then some more. The more principles and
understanding you have of a thing, the cheaper and better ways you
can find to execute an idea. I'm not at this to impress anyone and
that leaves some folks deflated 'cause they wanna see something.
Well I'm diligently working at it. Lyzers don't really interest me cause
they take up a lot of space; distilled water is only free when it rains,
and water as fuel freezes in the winter (where I live anyway.)
Now as far as the Joe Cell, I've downloaded some .txt files from the
first JoeCellFreeEnergyDevice yahoo group. I'm glad I did because they
seem to've been removed. Basically much of it is transcripts from what
Joe said in the videos he made, which aren't readily available here in
the US.
In the transcripts, Joe admitted, i.e. he knows, his device is a capacitor.
It's a little different than most in that it polarizes from outer to inner,
not + - + - ...as would occur if one were to roll a foil plate cap. The
dielectric is water. Lots of folks agonize about the water, if it's from a
pure source, alkaline or acid, getting it to bubble and watching those
to determine when the cell is to 'stage 3,' etc. Joe said plain distilled
water is the best. In fact a government agent brought him water
distilled four times (quad-distilled) and it worked the best. The simple
reason is that distilled water is most dielectric, which is what you want
in a capacitor to store charge. If it conducts at all, it's a poor capacitor.
The dielectric constant of distilled water is 80. that's incredibly high
compared to all known fluids. The only liquids that come close are
formalide and hydrogen cyanide, both highly dangerous and nothing
to fool with, whereas water is perfectly benign.
The charging process precipitates scum from the water to the point
eventually everything is filtered out and removed, it no longer conducts.
The most efficient Joe Cell doesn't bubble at all. We are not trying to
run our car off hydrogen bubbles. That's what lyzers do. This is a
different principle.
The Joe Cell water leaves a certain amount of upper tubes exposed.
That's so the charge can leak up the tubes to the cover. Think about
what we know about HV corona; it leaps from sharp edges to the nearest
grounded surface. The Joe Cell leaks corona, only so low V it's not
visible. The engine is ground. The block and Joe Cell are connected
via an aluminum tube connected to the conical cover of the cell. The AL
tube doesn't quite touch the block, there's a piece of rubber hose
separator the last few inches. Not a problem, static charge can leap
that distance. If the tube actually touched the block it would short to the
cell cover.
Nikola Tesla, Edwin Gray, Henry Moray and Joe, all discovered something
about electricity; there's a hot component and a cold component. The
hot component is electromagnetic in nature, while the cold component is
electrostatic. Cold electricity is what the sun pours upon earth, also what
emits from a tesla coil toroid to ether. Without generalizing too much,
hot electricity will fry you, cold won't. That's not to say that people haven't
been electrocuted by tesla coils, they have. But radiant energy IS cold
electricity, and radiant energy propagates through the ethers different
from EM waves. Radiant, electrostatic energy passes through everything
without even slowing down. This cold electricity will light bulbs brighter
than EM, and Joe claims the bulbs are freezing cold. Edwin Gray even
handled lit bulbs under water, without any fear of electrocution.
So the energy emitting off the tubes of the Joe Cell to the cover is
electrostatic, cold electricity. The hot electricity passes to ground, but
actually no EM flow occurs because the dielectric constant of the water
won't let it. Electrostatic lines of force form from outer to inner, and
electrostatic energy is cold electricity.
Now my understanding beyond this starts to fall apart. I believe the block
gets this cold electric charge, imparts it to the water in the block. The
charged block becomes polarized from outer to inner. Once the block
is polarized, it tends to hold the polarization. It becomes an electret so
to speak. Water loves to receive electricity. that's why you should never
stand in a puddle when changing a light bulb (obvious.)
I believe the air entering the motor gets an opposite charge to the block,
and to the spark which I believe is of the same sign only much higher V.
The oppositely charged air is attracted to the spark and actually causes
the piston to get sucked up towards it. A car running on just a Joe Cell
has to be advanced as much as 75 degrees before TDC. Clearly
there's a pull rather than a push going on here. and because it's a
vacuum, the RPM's can be much higher without the motor flying apart;
and slower to, and according to reports, runs silently (no explosions,
but implosions.)
Back to your original question: "Have I built a Joe Cell." I don't have lots
of bucks so the one i built used ss shimstock similar to Ant Davidson's
"kettle." My first was of spiral config and I learned pretty quick why that
doesn't work. Concentric rings are necessary. I came up with a method
of clips to hold the shimstock rings but the material had tabs and bulges
in places so didn't look clean, straight and orderly. I plugged it in, made
bubbles and precipitated out gunk from Lake Michigan water for about a
week before i realized I was removing the chrome plating from the clip
leads. (Note to self: buy all SS alligator clips.) So I got that far.
then I met Ren, an aussie who has built and run his car on a Joe Cell.
He's sort of the Bob Boyce for the Joe Cell group. Anyway he gave me
some bad news-- Joe Cells freeze in the winter and don't work! Well I
live in the midwest and need mine to work. So I'm currently investigating
other methods for charging water in the block that doesn't require an
external cell. We know the coolant system contains antifreeze and cars
run all winter on petrol. What we need to do is charge the coolant; then
the car will run as if it had a Joe Cell when it doesn't. Note: Joe said once
a car has run on a cell long enough, you can remove the cell entirely and
the car will run without it, even after months of sitting idle!
So I'm plowing ahead, beyond the original cell. I'll share my results when
I have something to report. but if you want to build the standard Joe Cell,
there's plenty of good info on the net you don't need me for.
Hope this is useful to you.
- thrival
- Regular Poster
- Posts: 528
- Joined: Thu Jul 14, 2005 1:54 am
by thrival » Wed Sep 06, 2006 11:17 pm
Waterbard:
Joe said we use or make electricity the "wrong way" but he also
admits knowing almost nothing about electricity. He runs hot 12V
to outermost tube and grounds the central one. And if the water
is dielectric enough, it holds the charge which Joe applies for
less than a minute, and the cell then runs a car (have to assume
small, aluminum block motor, without any obvious conditioning
period) straight away. That's how he does it. These cells
apparently don't need to be powered all the time or overnight
because they seem to charge up pretty fast and hold the charge.
Supposedly what takes the longest is conditioning an iron block
motor like I have.
But getting to the meat of your question, I do believe that a very (-)HV
drawing or sucking polarity at ground could work as well or better than
a high applied potential to the cell. A sucking ground would attract ether
particles to the cell like moths to a candle, or like a vacuum cleaner. I'm
actually working that direction with a hybridized idea. My main concern is
how 50/50 water/glycol mixes in the radiator will work over plain distilled
water. Obviously plain water is best but we won't be driving in the winter
that way.
Joe said we use or make electricity the "wrong way" but he also
admits knowing almost nothing about electricity. He runs hot 12V
to outermost tube and grounds the central one. And if the water
is dielectric enough, it holds the charge which Joe applies for
less than a minute, and the cell then runs a car (have to assume
small, aluminum block motor, without any obvious conditioning
period) straight away. That's how he does it. These cells
apparently don't need to be powered all the time or overnight
because they seem to charge up pretty fast and hold the charge.
Supposedly what takes the longest is conditioning an iron block
motor like I have.
But getting to the meat of your question, I do believe that a very (-)HV
drawing or sucking polarity at ground could work as well or better than
a high applied potential to the cell. A sucking ground would attract ether
particles to the cell like moths to a candle, or like a vacuum cleaner. I'm
actually working that direction with a hybridized idea. My main concern is
how 50/50 water/glycol mixes in the radiator will work over plain distilled
water. Obviously plain water is best but we won't be driving in the winter
that way.
- thrival
- Regular Poster
- Posts: 528
- Joined: Thu Jul 14, 2005 1:54 am
by thrival » Mon Sep 11, 2006 9:21 am
waterbard:
I may need to stand corrected on some points above, and your idea of HV and oil
may have considerable merit. See: http://www.lateralscience.co.uk/VDG/vdgpat.html
I may need to stand corrected on some points above, and your idea of HV and oil
may have considerable merit. See: http://www.lateralscience.co.uk/VDG/vdgpat.html
- thrival
- Regular Poster
- Posts: 528
- Joined: Thu Jul 14, 2005 1:54 am
by thrival » Mon Sep 11, 2006 8:38 pm
noncorrosive, nonflamable, able to hold a charge.
I spoke with oil cooler makers today, they advised against using
oil as a coolant in the radiator. It doesn't cool nearly as well as
water, engine would tend to overheat. Of course this only matters
during the change-over from petrol to static power.
Another problem is where to add the charge into the fluid stream.
Joe didn't have much good to say about doing it at the water pump,
but until a person tries, one can never really know.
I spoke with oil cooler makers today, they advised against using
oil as a coolant in the radiator. It doesn't cool nearly as well as
water, engine would tend to overheat. Of course this only matters
during the change-over from petrol to static power.
Another problem is where to add the charge into the fluid stream.
Joe didn't have much good to say about doing it at the water pump,
but until a person tries, one can never really know.
- thrival
- Regular Poster
- Posts: 528
- Joined: Thu Jul 14, 2005 1:54 am
by zendog » Wed Sep 13, 2006 3:08 pm
Hi-
I have build some joe cells of various configurations. I started over a year ago now. I'll tell you now that I never got an engine running on it...yet.
Originally I did the stainless steel route with the tubes and all. I tried a variety of waters but only got to a 'very leaky' stage 3 cell. I would get all of the action happening with the bubbles etc. but within a day or so the cell would just "go flat" I couldn't figure out why although I only used 304 stainless so perhaps that could be the problem. Alls I could do is take the cell apart and start over again. Same thing would happen where I would get a good reaction happening right a way bubble-wise but would soon fade away in a day or so. I tried lots of water but my tap water was the best- how about that?
Well, I parked the cell for a while. Some months later while I was working on some earth batteries and was testing some different metal combinations when I tried some in tube configurations. I noted while having an aluminum pipe connected to negative an a stainless outer tube connected to positive that a lot if "joe cell" type of bubble action was happening. I explored this further and could repeat this over and over and get great bubble action like what we'd be looking for in a joe cell. Not sure what I created by accident but from what I could see, I'd say that orgone loves aluminum! So again I had a inner metal tube of aluminum connected to ground and an outer tube of stainless connected to the positve. At very low volts like even just say about 4 voltsDC and current in the milliamps like 0.150 I would get tremendous bubble action like demonstrated on the videos of the various joe cells. The bubbles would hang around for days without having to recharge the cell. Anyways the cell itself was a battery which produced over a 1 volt continuous charge.
Problem encountered - I had two or three and even four on the go in the room where I work and slept. I got quite sick actually where I normally am a very robust, healthy type of fellow that never even gets hardly a sniffle of a cold. I had strange symptoms like cold sweats and hot prickly feeling on my face. I dismantled the cells and went away for 3 days where I quickly recovered again. I returned and activated the cells again where I once again became sick with the weird cold like symptoms and a rash on my face and neck.
So I've dismantled them for the time being to work on other projects and once again I feel healthy as I normally do. Never did even try to hook them up to an IC engine. I don't know if there is anything that can really connect my weird reactions and the joe cells I tried to build but then you never know.
What I wanted to say though was to those who are having difficulty with water and whatnot and just not getting the bubble reaction you'd hope for, just give a small try to having an aluminum negatve tube and see what happens. It gets really gunky quite quick but I just filter that out with coffee filters and just keep reusing the water. It seems to make "alum" or some such thing that floats around in the water if you leave the charge on more than what is required but it doens't seem to effect the cell negatively regarding bubble action.
Of note is that the father of Orgone, Reich did build his orgone accumulators using aluminum as one of the construction materials.
just wanted to relate my experiences with this unusual contraption. Of course getting sick and having heaps of weird bubbles doesn't prove that I actually had an orgone generator. Just wanted to relate my experiences messing about with this unusual cell.
All The Best and happy experimenting!
I have build some joe cells of various configurations. I started over a year ago now. I'll tell you now that I never got an engine running on it...yet.
Originally I did the stainless steel route with the tubes and all. I tried a variety of waters but only got to a 'very leaky' stage 3 cell. I would get all of the action happening with the bubbles etc. but within a day or so the cell would just "go flat" I couldn't figure out why although I only used 304 stainless so perhaps that could be the problem. Alls I could do is take the cell apart and start over again. Same thing would happen where I would get a good reaction happening right a way bubble-wise but would soon fade away in a day or so. I tried lots of water but my tap water was the best- how about that?
Well, I parked the cell for a while. Some months later while I was working on some earth batteries and was testing some different metal combinations when I tried some in tube configurations. I noted while having an aluminum pipe connected to negative an a stainless outer tube connected to positive that a lot if "joe cell" type of bubble action was happening. I explored this further and could repeat this over and over and get great bubble action like what we'd be looking for in a joe cell. Not sure what I created by accident but from what I could see, I'd say that orgone loves aluminum! So again I had a inner metal tube of aluminum connected to ground and an outer tube of stainless connected to the positve. At very low volts like even just say about 4 voltsDC and current in the milliamps like 0.150 I would get tremendous bubble action like demonstrated on the videos of the various joe cells. The bubbles would hang around for days without having to recharge the cell. Anyways the cell itself was a battery which produced over a 1 volt continuous charge.
Problem encountered - I had two or three and even four on the go in the room where I work and slept. I got quite sick actually where I normally am a very robust, healthy type of fellow that never even gets hardly a sniffle of a cold. I had strange symptoms like cold sweats and hot prickly feeling on my face. I dismantled the cells and went away for 3 days where I quickly recovered again. I returned and activated the cells again where I once again became sick with the weird cold like symptoms and a rash on my face and neck.
So I've dismantled them for the time being to work on other projects and once again I feel healthy as I normally do. Never did even try to hook them up to an IC engine. I don't know if there is anything that can really connect my weird reactions and the joe cells I tried to build but then you never know.
What I wanted to say though was to those who are having difficulty with water and whatnot and just not getting the bubble reaction you'd hope for, just give a small try to having an aluminum negatve tube and see what happens. It gets really gunky quite quick but I just filter that out with coffee filters and just keep reusing the water. It seems to make "alum" or some such thing that floats around in the water if you leave the charge on more than what is required but it doens't seem to effect the cell negatively regarding bubble action.
Of note is that the father of Orgone, Reich did build his orgone accumulators using aluminum as one of the construction materials.
just wanted to relate my experiences with this unusual contraption. Of course getting sick and having heaps of weird bubbles doesn't prove that I actually had an orgone generator. Just wanted to relate my experiences messing about with this unusual cell.
All The Best and happy experimenting!
- zendog
- Regular Poster
- Posts: 55
- Joined: Wed Oct 26, 2005 12:20 am
by MarkinAustralia » Wed Sep 27, 2006 5:39 am
Dear Joe Cell people,
I will never offend any of you as I have the upmost respect for you all.
I will not dispute your theories and ideas.
But I have had a lot of in person, hands on and whatever experience with many of these so called joe cell people in Australia.
You here about the MIB...well I have been threatened legally and in other ways by Joe cell enthusists. Talk about hypocracy. Joe and many of his other so called experts all still buy fule for thier cars, do not have functioning joe cells and at this point of time there is not one Joe Cell inexistance today that opperate an engine 100%
I have met people who claim they have improved performance(slightly) with Joe cells but none will have their vehicles tested.
i also have had emails from dozens of people who failed to get any results from Joe cells over many years.
many of the claims Joe has made I have taken to people with the knowhow to set up experiments and not one has held up so far. this especially applies to car electronics.
levetating vehicles???engines made by mitsubishi that wont stop (PS I know in person some of the Mistibushi lead technitions who worked in Australia)
i could publish a book of the lies,deciet and many other things I have seen in person...and could debunk everything said point by point. I choose not to as I have a young family and dont wont to expose them to any threats.
Have a look at there latest ramblings...from curing everthing to religious implications.
The Joe cell group acts as a cult and if you question its teachings, or leaders you are branded a heritic.
Do i discourage joe cell research...no not at all...however i feel bad when people spend money they can ill afford in many cases without having a balanced argument to make their descion on.
yes I am on my soap box...but I am a full time energy resaercher, I fiscal support other researchers and have offered to do so to many others with no obligation...but I do take exception to people being misled.
people ask why do these people continue as they recieve no money. Firstly ego...secondly you can by a built joe cell in a certain country town near where I live for $1500 (cash of course) from some of these very people.
Many of you know the respect I have for you.....however when it comes to Joe cells keep me well clear.
I will never offend any of you as I have the upmost respect for you all.
I will not dispute your theories and ideas.
But I have had a lot of in person, hands on and whatever experience with many of these so called joe cell people in Australia.
You here about the MIB...well I have been threatened legally and in other ways by Joe cell enthusists. Talk about hypocracy. Joe and many of his other so called experts all still buy fule for thier cars, do not have functioning joe cells and at this point of time there is not one Joe Cell inexistance today that opperate an engine 100%
I have met people who claim they have improved performance(slightly) with Joe cells but none will have their vehicles tested.
i also have had emails from dozens of people who failed to get any results from Joe cells over many years.
many of the claims Joe has made I have taken to people with the knowhow to set up experiments and not one has held up so far. this especially applies to car electronics.
levetating vehicles???engines made by mitsubishi that wont stop (PS I know in person some of the Mistibushi lead technitions who worked in Australia)
i could publish a book of the lies,deciet and many other things I have seen in person...and could debunk everything said point by point. I choose not to as I have a young family and dont wont to expose them to any threats.
Have a look at there latest ramblings...from curing everthing to religious implications.
The Joe cell group acts as a cult and if you question its teachings, or leaders you are branded a heritic.
Do i discourage joe cell research...no not at all...however i feel bad when people spend money they can ill afford in many cases without having a balanced argument to make their descion on.
yes I am on my soap box...but I am a full time energy resaercher, I fiscal support other researchers and have offered to do so to many others with no obligation...but I do take exception to people being misled.
people ask why do these people continue as they recieve no money. Firstly ego...secondly you can by a built joe cell in a certain country town near where I live for $1500 (cash of course) from some of these very people.
Many of you know the respect I have for you.....however when it comes to Joe cells keep me well clear.
Follow your passion
- MarkinAustralia
- Regular Poster
- Posts: 262
- Joined: Sat Jul 15, 2006 8:48 am
- Location: Australia
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