Brian Martin Cell

[saisunee]

Hi,

I am intrigued with what this brian martin cell is telling us, but even more so with what has not been said, or with held.

Quiet simply he is saying 12mmw, but without heat so therefore it is true HHO and not a high percentage of water vapour. His copper cored electrodes are reducing the cell resistance. I would therefore think that he is able to get his voltage across his plates very close to the reduction potential of 1.24v. But he is not saying this ! In fact if we look at his 9 plate cell it is actually 3 double plate series cell. He does not state what voltage he is using but does say that the 9 plate design would make an ideal car booster cell, so therefore I can deduce that he is using 12v supply. This would mean 4v across each set of plates………….
In his 36 plate design, if he is using the same supply voltage then he would have only 1v across his plates with 12 series plates……….

bob boyce recommends only 0.25amps per square inch, which he looks like he is using.

I think that a good cell design is all about balance……..or not supplying an …….supplying more energy than is needed for electrolysis, in the form of over voltage or too high a current density means the energy is wasted in heat.

In short he is using 4v per cell and not isolating the cells against current leakage, these are two reasons why I would doubt the 12mmw figure.

Being positive, maybe there is some credibility in the way the current flows though the cell. Without going into lots of detail, it is worth looking at mrgallerias’s spiral cell on his project page.

Br
Nee

[mrgalleria]

[hhoguru232004]

[juanito]

[mrgalleria]

[hhoguru232004]

I'll certainly take a look around the site when I have more time. If there is any way I can assist you please let me know. I'll help you in any way I can that goes for everyone.

I've struggled along time with this 2 volt per cell thing and makeing calculations on paper. I find in real life it's harder to do because of diffrent variables. The Largest variable being plate thickness. Most people use 16 guage but there are some people useing 20 guage 316L and If you use 20 guage keeping all variables the same example a slotted box for the same amount of power you could use more steel than 16 guage. However 20 guage isn't a good choice as it tends to warp from heat but it was just an example. I kinda feel that each cell had to be tailored when it's made especially for the users car we must remember that all cars alternators have voltage variations. This is why I feel ultimetley high voltage is the best way to go. I like brute force because it's alot less expensive I feel Bob certainly knows a ton about this stuff more than most of us could learn in a lifetime. What makes bob special is his good will and kind heart combined with his knowledge and willingness to help people. I don't think anyone could ask for a better person to know.

[resident_genius]

brian:

many many car alternators put out 13.8-14.3 DCV. thats close enough proximity to realize that a six or seven cell system is the limit for a series cell.

what that being said, why not take the variables out of the situation? my system uses a DC-DC converter. i drop my input voltage out to a steady 1-5DCV (depending on the # of cells and configuration), and the whole system could be plugged in through a car's cigarette lighter, even when running the cells @ 25 ampheres.

im not seeing the whole brute force dilemma others are. however- as bold and slightly cocky of a statement as that was, i have not measured my cell's current output in quite some time, or run them (in a while) as a matter of fact. my current cells are only utilizing 32 sq in per cell, making the recommended amperage only 8 ampheres per cell. i run them slightly harder, about 12 amps per cell, and run two cells in parallel (electrically) so that the chip i'm using only draws about 9 ampheres from the car's electrical system, and each cell sees the minimum voltage and max amperage.

[resident_genius]

for instance, this is my apparatus. third chamber is just a "catch can" and may or may not be used. after all this is MSPaint! haha.

[hhoguru232004]

dc to dc converters work great I'm fond of them over a pwm. matching a small inverter and full wave bridge recifier and small variac in the car too a 15 plate cell does very well. I like whats being done on the new dry cells where the center plate has no holes so it seperates the two cells.

I've seen alot of things posted now by bob and I admire his work but I try not to read other peoples work any more than I have too because I'd rather fail and fall flat on my face and learn from it. When I desighned the B-cell along time ago I honestly had no idea other people messed with this stuff. I spent thousands of dollars with trial and error until I found something that I liked. I think everyone has there own desighns and as long as it achieves your own personal goal for your application thats what matters.

Now that I have read bobs PDF chapter ten and I'm putting together a boyce box of my own I find it very interesting. I learned alot from bob includeing the importance of crosshatching and proper plate conditioning which is a science in itself. I'll be comeing out with a new line of cells by the summer that will be my current work. I have not seen anyone do anything similar yet which is encourageing too me.

As far as useing the dc to dc converters I feel there better than any PWM I've seen but I would think that a small inverter variac and full wave bridge rectifier would give better results in the car. Inverters aren't that expensive for lower plate count cells.

[passion1]

[higear]

[Cudaman]

hhoguru232004

You are not the only one who has built and tested a cell of this design. In fact I posted this design on another web site over 6 months ago. And to my suprise your setup looks exactly like the one I posted (fuel-saver.org). I'm not saying you are taking credit for my design, well maybe, because I did post it first from what I can see.
Anyway, since we both are working with the same type cell we can compare notes and make it even better. How can I get a hold of you?
The output is very good compared to the other designs I have built and the big thing is the heat stays down. I have almost exactly the same output numbers you posted on your paper. I would post a picture but I do not see a tab to do so. I also have my design drawing that I did Alibre cad but again can't post it here. Sorry to here about the deathes in the family.

[mrgalleria]

[PaulUK]

[galveston]