TWO steps out of the electrolysis box.....

[AlaskaStar]

OK, this thread is about electrolysis or the use of electricity to break down the hydrogen and oxygen bonds in water/ or disturb as such to split the covalent bonds and thereby convert water into it's constituent elements.

So I will quote from another on this site:

Two questions

1. Does anyone know what the acctual fracture point is? [Fracture point is when the intermoleculare bondings breaks] recuired energy. According to one researcher: To ionize (remove) a hydrogen atom from a water molecule, it takes 13.6 eV (electron volts) = 2.17895999 × 10-18 joules - you dont need to be a genuis to understand that this creates HO + H gas.

"Voltage breakdown" is not electrolysis! "Voltage breakdown" uses pure water as an insulator, whereas electrolysis requires electrolyte" .. now this is where it becomes confusing.

2. If voltage breakdown acctually works, why are we hung up on the electrolyser? (since this methode is greener)

I understand that now one knows the exact numbers (that´s a flat fact), but a few simple question ought to point us to the right answer, not necessary the ONE, but att least it should help us speculate less and get hold of some real data .. right? Becose there is a huge differense between 1,24V and 13,6V - this is not current, only voltage and here it commes.

How much amperage is required to perform work? ...

One answer arise ten questions, and i think this equation is true. Very Happy i am sure keeping everybody busy!

END QUOTE.

Instead of looking to break water down using electricity, why doesn't one look at the water molecule itself, but not in the terms that we have become accustomed to? Here's a better theory:

The covalent electric bonds that keep hydrogen and oxygen stable in the form of liquid water at room temp (20 C) is where we need to look.

HOW MUCH ENERGY IS IN THAT BOND?

HOW MANY AMPS/ VOLTS/ WATTS ARE HOLDING WATER TOGETHER?

so now instead of looking to input energy to break the bond, is it electrically possible to generate an ABSENCE OF ENERGY to cause such a VOID that the bond releases this electrical charge to fill the void and allow the water to be broken down to it's basic elements? If this can be accomplished, I would suggest using this method of incurring an absence of energy to perform the work, and thereby allowing the operator to control the exact amount of negative energy would be like controlling the valve on your water spigot, but it would control the amount of hydrogen converted and at whatever speed one would desire.

And since space travel was 'never going to be possible' in the year 1874, today, regarding space flights.... it is a common household knowledge that is is possible, but in 1874 hadn't been accomplished YET.
Naysayers: don't say it's not possible, you are only selling yourself short. Open your mind to the possibilities and focus your energy to proving it's possible and reap the rewards for being the FIRST to accomplish it.


So here's what I came up with so far:

2 hydrogen and 1 oxygen make 1 mole of water.

'mole' is short for 'molecule'. (for those who didn't yet know....those who did know, please keep quiet...)

How much energy is in 1 mole of water, contained within the covalent bonds?

How much of a void (electrical) is required to break that bond for 1 mole of water?

Where can we put this electrical power once we remove it from the water?

How many moles are in 1 gallon of water?

How much power (electrical) is in 1 gallon of water waiting to be removed by a void of whatever sort?

Would a technology like this make hydrogen not needed as a fuel, but more of a byproduct of the electrical extraction of electricity from water?

What would this do to revolutionize the industries?

This concludes my thought line. Out of the box thinkers, please let's hear your thought on this.

In the box thinkers, please, lets not have the impossibility talk here. It can be done, it just hasn't happened YET.

AlaskaStar

[Hybrid]

Alaska to capture the electricity in water sounds like a nice dream
you had last night jkn) A rotating force created by the spliting water
to power a generator ? Rather than using the HHO to burn in an ICE,
regulate the building presure (inside a presure vessel cell) to run the
turbine you have at home ? Now turn that rotating turbine into gen
power to charge a battery pack or etc etc. Or maybe your chemicaly
generated Hydrogen, regulate it's gas presure build up to spin your
turbine. The turbine you & your friend were working on. Bit like a
steam driven gen runing on HHO presure instead of steam. But don't
light a cigar near the dumped HHO coming out of the turbine.
Cheers !

[Jehu]

I think I undersatnd what your trying to say here AS.

What you're kinda talking about is to make an absence of energy, or as you put it, a void. Then the bond in the water molucule will break to fill this void.

what we kinda need to do is strech the bond till it snaps. think of a balloon or a coke bottle. you strech it enough it will break with a bang. Now we often think of this as putting something inside of it and pressurising it till it can't stannd it any longer and explodes. I think this is the wrong idea and is what AS is getting at. We, with our present means, are putting energy in via electroylisis till the bond breaks. We are filling the bottle till it breaks.

But the balloon or bottle doesn't always need to be filled to break.

What about a vacuum? Or something similar.

A ballon will expaand in a vacuum right? Well so does water. Ok, it does turn to steam. But! Does it not also break it's bonds, seperating into H2 and O after heating to 800*F? Why can't this be the same with a vacuum?

Or could we substitute an atmospheric vacuum for an energy/power vacuum of some kind.

Also what are we going to do with the H2 and O after we break it's bonds? Why should we burn it? Actually it seems a bit of a waste to burn it IMHO.

When you think about it, we wouldn't have the chance to anyway.

Why?

Well think about how the bonds are made. Arn't the H atoms sharing an electron with the O atom? If we break it, where did that electron go? Did it stay with the O and leave a H atom hungry for a electron? Or it it the other way around? Either way they are gonna want to combine again and may even cause some heat along the way.



But wait a sec.......


Or did that electron go to fill the void we made? If so, we got atleast 2 atoms (assuming we only broke one bond) looking for an electron.

Humm, this could get interesting.

That would mean we got a H nucleus floating around like a bear comming out of hibanation, it's gonna be hungry. And then you got that HO mole right behind it as well. They could very well decide that the vessel containing them would make a nice meal.

Or could they convert heat (as an IR Photon) to the electron they need? That could make the apparatus rather cold.

But then again....

Have you noticed that alot of things can have the same results using a reverse method? Like the bottle and balloon.

Why not with nuclear fusion?

Why can't it work the same way?

Think about how the nuclear forces act when trying to achive fusion or fission. The general approach atm is to pump energy in to either a. split an atom (fission) or b. combine 2 atoms (fusion). Now this has to do with the nuclar forces, either the strong, the weak nuclear or the electromagnetic forces.

Now with fusion, we have to overcome the repulsion due to one of these forces. That's why we use high pressures or high speed to over come this. But we are still puting energy in. Why not take the repulsion away and let them draw themselves together? Wounld this not be the true meaning of cold fusion?

I hope this was "out of the box" enough for you. For all I know, I took it out of the box, off the table, out the back door and kicked it into space.

[Jehu]

Hang on a sec...... have we just explained the theory behind singularity power generation??????

Gulp...... did I just get out of the box marked "conventional" and jumped in the one addresed to "Pandora"?

[FlashBang]

[AlaskaStar]

[Jehu]

[AlaskaStar]

[Jehu]

[Hybrid]

[williamssteve]

[van]

[kevinsatterfield]

[AlaskaStar]

[resident_genius]