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OUPower.com • View topic - Ravi's Meyer Replication- Tap Water to H2

Ravi's Meyer Replication- Tap Water to H2

This forum is for discussing anything related to electrolysis and electrolyzer designs.

Postby passion1 » Mon Aug 13, 2007 3:37 pm

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Postby kumaran » Tue Aug 14, 2007 12:27 am

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(Knowledge without action is useless, action without knowledge is foolish)
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Electrode conditioning / passivation

Postby SeaMonkey » Tue Aug 14, 2007 12:49 am

The conditioning of the tubes, or the plates, depending upon the style of construction seems to be necessary to remove alloyed iron from the surfaces of the stainless.

The brown "crud" that forms in the electrolyte as seen in various project photos is evidence of the iron compounds which have come off the surfaces of the stainless. That is very desirable in order to expose the chromium and molybdenum and other of the exotic metals for enhanced catalytic action.

Has anyone tried the Citric Acid Passivation Process as a prelude to operational conditioning in order to speed up the process?



It would seem that removal of the undesired iron from the surfaces before cell or stack assembly might reduce the time needed to finish the conditioning with power applied so as to get the increased gas generation.

Any thoughts anyone?
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Postby ravzz » Tue Aug 14, 2007 2:35 am

I would firstly advice you to go through all of stan's patents to have better understanding of the process.

There is a lot of important stuff in the US and International patents wherein in one of the patents he mentions higher efficiency of a tube setup compared to a plate setup for his proces (so I just didnt want to experiment with the plate setup on his process but I guess it works better with Bob's process). This answers your question Simon.

I could just give you everything but it could work for some and not work for some as the voltages and frequencies vary as per the WFC build and the impurities in tap water. I'm saying this coz till I made the changes when the components blew up on Dave's circuit i didnot get the right combo. The exposed surface area of my setup is much larger as compared to Dave's. He has 6 tubes of 5" lengths and mine is 9 tubes of 9" length so there had to be variations and the thickness of his pipes is different from mine...I have a gap of 1 mm between the pipes the outer tube thickness varies this gap. The gap used by stan meyer was 1.587mm (1/16").. As per stan the lesser the gap higher the efficiency.

Incase you are thinking of this gap youll have to use use three spacers of flexible foam on either end at 120 degree angles in the gap.I say fexible because you would not want any vibrations induced to be restricted as these vibrations help dissipate the bubbles from the surface. If you are not that well versed with mechanical skills, I would advice you to go for a higher gap as the space is very restricted and you might end up shorting the pipes. In longer lengths you should look for slight bends in the pipes as the pipes may get shorted. 1.5mm or 2mm gaps are also OK.

Points to note:

Check the new update of D14.pdf...theres an inductor added inbetween...its a must.

Patents show a variable resistor on the -ve side in between the WFC and the freq generator which everyone seems to have missed out (incl dave) in the '996 patent. This I had asked Dave about and he said it restricts the current going to the WFC.

My setup compared to Dave's has individual connections going to each of the 18 pipes.

Conditioning of the tubes takes a long time....SeaMonkey's explanatin stands good. Once you stop forming the brown muck you know you've conditioned the pipes and the gas generation increases at this point.

Kumaran I had subtracted 100% Faraday efficiency from the total and what you get then is the OU %. Your figure is for total efficiency of the WFC.



Kevin...Instead of trying to convert this to a plasma electrolysis reactor there is this Japanese Hokkaido University experiment which achieved some mind boggling results and was also replicated by JL Naudin...

These guys went OU with the generation of Hydrogen. Their experiment and results link

http://lenr-canr.org/acrobat/MizunoTgeneration.pdf

As per their conclusions: 'current efficiency' is 8000% to the input!!!

I'm nowhere close to where they are!!
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Postby ravzz » Tue Aug 14, 2007 2:39 am

You could always build Dave's setup without making any changes including the pipe thickness, height and diameters and achieve the same results as Dave did. His circuit should work for his WFC build size. Conditioning is the key to his generation.
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Postby ravzz » Tue Aug 14, 2007 3:49 am

DONOT USE 316L AS LEAD WIRE THEY HAVE TOO HIGH A SPECIFIC RESISTANCE TO BE USED AS LEADS

approxmately 46.8 times that of copper...incase you want to introduce a resistance you could always used a wire wound variable reistance.

This seems to have been the problem of leads heating up.


Specific Resistances:

Copper : 1.63 MICROHM-cm
316 : 75 MICROHM-cm
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Postby passion1 » Tue Aug 14, 2007 5:57 am

Ravi

You wrote:

"Patents show a variable resistor on the -ve side in between the WFC and the freq generator which everyone seems to have missed out (incl dave) in the '996 patent.
This I had asked Dave about and he said it restricts the current going to the WFC"

Are you referring to the variable inductor or another variable resistor?
Which 996 patent are you referring to:

USP # 4,936,961 ~ Method for the Production of a Fuel Gas
USP # 4,798,661 ~ Gas Generator Voltage Control Circuit
USP # 4,389,981 ~ Hydrogen Gas Injector System for Internal Combustion Engine

Various people have suggested that one should NOT use the blocking diode because that would prevent LC circuit resonance?
Are you using a blocking diode?
Does the gas production increase dramatically suddenly when your cell goes into resonance?
What kind of resonance do you believe your cell is tapping into?

Thank you again for answering all our questions!
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Postby ravzz » Tue Aug 14, 2007 8:33 am

I'm realy sorry about the patent number.

its 4,798,661 and the variable resistance I was talking about is in Figure 1 with numbers 60a...to....60n on the inner tube.

I dont use a blocking diode. No there no dramatic increase when you vary upuntil you condition the tubes.

When I initially started off I could hardly see any bubbles emerging. But as the conditioning proceeds over a period of time you see the gas generation gradually increase. At a point where i was generating a lot of small bubbles I thought I reached the peak but I just wanted to see what would happen if I condition a little more and what I ended up with was making these large 10mm sized bubbles. Its not that the small bubbles accumulate to a bigger bubble but the moment the gen is switched on the large bubbles come rushing out, you can see this in the vids. I wonder if I condition some more I might endup with large bubbles only. Lets see how it goes.

The key to the whole process in my point of view is conditioning and this should go on for a while even after you stop making the brown muck and you end up with large bubbles like mine. It will take time but at the end of the day its worth it!

The dramatic gas increase happens in the range of 0.1 to 0.2 Amps in my WFC but above that you just need to keep checking as to where you get the highest efficiency for that particular WFC and it would be less than an Amp in any case. Look at my outputs the efficiency decreases as you increase the ampearage to the freq generator.
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Postby passion1 » Tue Aug 14, 2007 9:47 am

Ravi

Thank you for clearing that up!
What would you recommend is the most efficient way to condition our tubes?
For how long should we run this conditioning process uninterrupted, 1 day/ 2days/ 1 week?
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