as far as additives
i do not add any acids
no cadmium sulphate
a very small amount of epsom salt, and i mean a tiny bit
some 2h2o2 and a type of sugar yes sugar but not sugar
finally i top off the electrolyte with a very heavy synthetic oil
it keeps all the good stuff in the batt, and i keeps them from getting dirty
Statistics: Posted by redriderno22 — Mon Jan 12, 2009 7:02 pm
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'putting three small batteries on a TRAY.....'
Statistics: Posted by mael — Mon Jan 12, 2009 4:44 pm
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That seems a very sensible and cheap idea. As not only will it desulphate the targeted battery, it'll also slowly desulphate the 36 V stack you are using for the current source.
A commonly recurring thought as I desulphate batteries is that the process works much faster when there is some charge added to the pulses.
the V sometimes goes above 16 V by the time I'm happy things are running satisfactorily with a battery. The cases may get to 5 C above the ambient.
I wonder if the pulsers with some impetus behind them are more effective because the resonating sulphate crystals are being vibrated for longer and hence the process of desulphating is speeded up because crystals are being more thoroughly destroyed by a heavy bombarment ratherthan chipped-away by one sharp pulse?
I've had two 150 A/h batts desulphated in parallel with a pulser delivering around a hundred amps and the job was done in a total of two weeks. But half of that time I was messing around with the settings and testing and I even had them off-charge and sitting a month between re-connecting it.
I'm sure anything over 50 A in a pulse with some oomph behind it will do your 225 A/h batts in days.
... But I reckon the job can be done in one day with the right gear. Resonance is what seems to enable the sulphate crystals to be destoyed by a bang, so there's something about that initial resonance-causing 'bang' that's the kety to getting the job done in perhaps hours - or maybe minutes? I'm going to be watching what happens and I'm sure there are secrets to be discovered. the lead/acid battery has no need to fear for its future from what I can see. I'm really confident those things will last decades or more when they are allocated and maintained correctly.
... And who knows what other avenues I'm going to be waltzing up with the pulsing? I can see all sorts of fun and games where I might well discover a way to get power without paying through the memter for it.
And doubtless I'll be letting you know.What's the additives you use? I'd heard of using phosphoric acid and pycric acid in conjunction. the phosphoric acid is supposed to enable a near 100 % discharge and the pycric acid apparently made the plates stronger.
I haven't tried it though. It sounds frightfully dangerous. Neither do I use EDTA any more - but I'm considering eating some to allay my fears I've inadvertantly ingested more lead than my body can cope with.
All I add is plain water these days.
I have wondered what other additives I may try. Deuterium makes a light shine 'up there' so I may try that. actually I'd need to have quite a lot of D20 before I'd try it in batteries as I want to try using it on myself - both internally and externally. I hear it can be described in some ways as an 'elexir to immortality,' and though I'd be bored after a few thousand years I would like to remain healthy and able to persue my interests up till the day I go too far..............
Statistics: Posted by mael — Mon Jan 12, 2009 4:44 pm
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still learning too!
work keeps me busy most of the time and i get very litte time to "play" anymore.
but anywho
ive just started to scavenge up parts for a BIG pulser
one that can handle a 225 AH battery
and "clean it" quickly, within a day or so i hope
with the additives ive come up with
and yes ive tried the EDTA and it does work for a short time
but it makes the plates weak, and you end up with a completely shorted battery!
but what im wondering is how you use 3 transformers? i mean i have an idea but???
the circut i use is the one seamonkey posted here a while ago
i use a small one to bring back all the little batts around the house
and the batteries for all my tools and it works well
but on the big golf cart batts it takes forever---months with little results
but the amperage is not that high.
well if you can send me another e- mail
so we can exchange pics and info and what not.
Statistics: Posted by redriderno22 — Mon Jan 12, 2009 10:33 am
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I think that something with the required oomph is necessarily expensive, and the manufacturers in their infinite cheapness have flooded the market with junk. But that's not to say that they are all junk.
I defer my costs mostly by using parts from discarded pc boards turfed-out and at the back of electrical shops.
To be honest I have never used a store-bought pulser, but I've read many reviews about them. It seems they exaggerate the power in the pulses and though they may work (if they are a decent square-wave/pulse) they will take time 0- if the pulser is only drawing milliamps then it's going to take weeks or months.
I am keen to experiment on the possibilities of desulphating using amplified resonance one day soon. This is as against relying to the fleeting resonance from the pulses. I'll doubtless let you know how I get on.
Statistics: Posted by mael — Mon Jan 12, 2009 9:14 am
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My pulses are from 1 PP/s to around50, but I've tried up to 5 K. My circuitry isn't exactly state-of-the-art, and I'm lacking an 'O' scope so I'm not confident about the shapes of the (important) leading-edges of my pulses, so I go for relays to drive the base/gate current/voltage.
I want to incorporate a schmitt trigger to one of my astable m/v as soon as I'm confident they'll work. Y'see I know the relays give me a near-perfect square wave, and this is the most important part of the process as far as I can see ... ie... a good whack, especially on the leading edge - I suppose the trailing edge could be a slope providing it approaches zero before the next pulse.
The transformers I use now are arbitrarily 'large.' I have a small bench-top type welding transformer on one pulser with the 90 A transistor array and I can see I'll never have to worry about it cooking, and it delivers whatever current I want. (The small ones will work, but it takes more time). On a 12 V battery I have found that the higher the voltage the better. The pulser with the lowest V in the pulses would read around 18.
The transformers I use these days charge the cap bank to at least 30 V, and one will go up to a shade over 50 V. (Things get a bit tense with the high voltage for me). Sometimes I think the pulses from a large T through a/c transistor blocks could be used to start a nuclear reaction - I mean it's a heck of a whack which will melt the terminals if the clips aren't tight - Visions of escaping gas being ignited by poorly clamped clips are something never far from my thoughts. (Did I just wake-up ECHELON)?
And as I'm not very familiar with electronics, but learning it by experiment and from the internet I tend to make my circuits in blocks with their own power supplies and potentionmeters in-between to get things running without overloading them.
It's a bit primitive, but it is simple to understand from a glance if something is wrong, and it affords me a clear view of what each bit is doing so if anything unexpected occurs I can usually easily find where it requires attention.
ie. The pulser I've just finished has three transformers. one is to charge the caps, another to power the m/v, with another leg off regulating the V to the relay, and the third T is dedicated to the base/gate supply. I think I could do it with only two transformers by doing away with the T for the base V. I just did it that way because I'm always worried about keeping the base/gate V as stable and controllable as possible. I'll dispense with it as soon as I am confident. (Getting itchy fingers these days).
But I like to keep the caps on one T. I don't think I'll try to run everything on one large transformer owing to the widely varying V from the pulses, and using an IC voltage regulator near its rated maximum is a recipe for disaster. (I like things cool).
* Actually RR I sent you an email but never got a reply. If you can help then say what you want on these threads of mine. I started here on batteries a bit over a year ago and at that time I was so ignorant I was sticking metal screwdrivers through the plates wondering what they did!
I also tried simply adjusting the acid so it appeared to be good. I've learnt quite a lot since then.From my own experiments and from researching on the 'net, and from listening to various people here, I have now found a reliable way to desulphate batteries of any size, and from the information I have collated it is possible for anyone with minimal parts and minimal experience to replicate what I have done.
I did this mostly because I want to help people to save money (Myself obviously included). And because a lot ot the information on the internet is confusing and often just plain wrong. So I've read a lot of what's out there and eventually found my own way of doing it. And it works!!!!!!!!!! I sifted through the chaff and got to the heart of the matter.
I'm not done yet. Now I can reliably desulphate a battery I will continue my experiments and observations.
So what is it that you want to add to the discussion RR?
Statistics: Posted by mael — Mon Jan 12, 2009 9:02 am
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I've got six desulphators and I'm now in the process of rebuilding the earlier ones so as to incorporate the improvements I've noticed along the way.
I used six transistors on the output of a recently made pulser and it worked very well. I have made another using the same (90 A) transistors and that too is working very well.
I've even blown one set of transistors with a bit of inadvertant destructive testing. And as luck would have it it blew in the shorted position so it was lucky I was there to throw the power switch off. (But it wouldn't have blown had I not cranked it up so high).
Desulphating batteries by leaving them on a float charge for months at 13.1 - 13.3 V is one way. It works. I've tried three batteries on a long float charge and they wer all desulphated to the point they could be used without worry in your car.
Desulphating using a weak pulse of a few amps also works. If you are lucky it'll take a week for a small battery and a month or more with a small marine-type of A/h around 100.
But it is when you use tens of amps that things speed up remarkably. It doesn't seem to be the speed of the pulses so much as the current in them.
I prefer the larger machines which are capable of desulphating a battery in a day - three days as I'm trying to make a go of doing a business dealing with batteries I've rejuvenated/desulphated. - And on that score I'm not doing too badly. I've only got one company who wants my batteries, but I've sold them over twenty batteries of various sizes and they seem very pleased. It's saving them heaps of money. And all of my four bikes have batteries I've desulphated and they all crank the motor. And my wife's car, and her mother's car ... and a few friends have been given my batteries. Yeah! It works. No doubt about it.
So what's left to do? I'm planning to make at least two more desulphators using high current pulses. One is going to be fitted with a transistor block from an air-conditioner which is rated at 240 Amps. - Not that I'm planning to put 240 A through a battery, but as the power in the pulses can be adjusted by the base/gate voltage and by varying the pulse-width, any of the desulphators can handle a battery of any size.
I hope I shall be able to concentrate more on desulphating batteries and making observations. My having some more customers for my batteries would be the best way to allow this to happen. I'm not much of a salesman, but fortunately my wife is good at speaking to people and I feel confident when she is around - and so we'll visit a few places and see if we can't drum up some more business.
* I ought to be filled to the brim with confidence about what I'm doing and shout it from the rooftops. I mean I know it works! What's wrong with me? There's this doubting-Thomas floating around inside me and I can't shut him up.
I suppose this will be the last post in this thread as I've accomplished what I set out to do.
I hope to begin a new thread concerning what I observe occuring in the batteries I am treating.
But! I'd like to say I have just desulphated a Varta battery. It's 74 A/h, and it was a non-floater ie - water as electrolyte.
I had to access the cells to check/adjust the levels and to see the condition of the plates. - and what I saw apart from the sulphation were really nice solid and heavy/thick plates. I thought that it looked like a battery which would last for decades - and I'm sure it can. BUT! It's a sealed one. it was very difficult to remove the plastic cover and it's going to be a devil of a job to get it back on again without it leaking. I'll cross that bridge when I come to it - in the next couple of days or so. But the point of my mentioning this Varta battery was to say what a crying shame it is for such a well-made battery to end up as scrap for the simple reason it can not be maintained. I really hope people boycott those sealed batteries and encourage the manufacturers to sell ones with caps so you can maintain them.
Well......... Sleepy byes for now.
Statistics: Posted by mael — Sun Jan 11, 2009 5:25 pm
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There's now a 20 milliOhm reistor in series with the rectified output of the transformer to the cap bank. This is really so I can easily connect a meter and get an idea of what power is going through the system.
I adjusted the pulse to be approx 2 Hz because I thought the transistor array and related parts could manage it.
There is a 10 mFd cap in series with a variable resistor across the relay coil which gives me a broader pulse if I want one.
The purpose of this pulser is to test high-current pulses to see how effective they are at desulphating.
Well it's been a god 12 hours since I connected a 150 A/h to it. The battery had been half-pulsed before by another pulser over ten days, and I took it off to do some batteries I was contracted to fix by a 2nd hand car shop.
When I connected the battery I tested the SG and all cells were nearly at the green or exactly on. Well half a day later they are all at 1260 or perhaps a bit more.
The ten days of pulsing I did before was becoming tedious and towards the end it was difficult to see any further improvement. But a short time on a high-current pulse has finished the job.
My impression is that it worked like a dream. I mean this battery now is like a brand new one in terms of the SG and the plates look good.
I've run out of batteries which are sulphated, but I've got a few I did several months ago which I can try with this new machine.
I'll see if I can find a couple of dumped batteries tonight in the small hours outside battery shops (when no one's watching).
* I wasn't using the full power of this machine, but I would guess the amperage in the pulses I tried were approaching a hundred at the leading edge.
Statistics: Posted by mael — Thu Jan 01, 2009 7:11 am
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