19 Cell series-small.

[glenn_aircooled]

Latest "little project". The 19 cell series electrolyser.
The old 15 inch 7 cell unit died ( it leaked and was good opertunity to build
it better.).
Well the 8 plates cut to 16 plates. Then because it was smaller, I found some more
scrap and made it 20 PLATES.
Now , I hear you asking " how can you power that in a car..? ".
Well funny you should ask that , cause I am testing a theory - that
when you Pulse 13.8 V DC and put that through a Transformer.
You can step it up to in this case approx. 34.2 V. Thats a 2.47 : 1
step up transformer. Then apply that to the cell. I will try increasing the frequency
to see if I can find a sweet spot - "to shake off them bubbles."
-
See Picies Here................
http://oupower.com/index.php?dir=_Other ... ries-small

[kevinsatterfield]

That sure is some nice conditioning of those plates.......

[MarkinAustralia]

Hi Kevin,
Just wondering how you have been lately. Are you going to continue with hermans or go to a series cells design.
Hope you are well
Mark

[glenn_aircooled]

[kevinsatterfield]

Glen I think your plates are better than 304....304 is wat i have the dark side of my cells were very black and slimy.I think the liter the color on the dark side the better.With my nickel coated plates the cathode was turnning even liter...almost completely white till i used some potassium carbonate in it and turned it black.Im still learnning but with KOH and Nickel the nickle doesnt electroplate back to the anode.The color of yer dark side (cathode i think) looks alot better than it does with 304 plates.And I think like a spark plug with carbon(the blacker stuff) creates a higher resistance on the plates and make'n it a problem to get the cells back up to optimum production.I may be a little off and maybe some one can jump in and help clarify why we expierienced the problems of dropping amperage and unable to get back up.(you too?) But any ways yer cathode looks alot better than mine did with 304 plates.My 304 plates are slitely attracted to a hard drive magnet but wont stick to it.

[freddyflatfoot]

Just question on conditioning, am I right that to condition your plates, you place your plates in a weak electrolyte solution, and run the electrolyzer for a couple of days? Or do you just put the plates into the weak solution? Rob

[kevinsatterfield]

they need a week solution of lye or KOH the lye conditionning is cheaper because wat ever you use to condition with is going to get used up.If you can afford to condition with KOH go for it...especially if you are use'n nickel plates.One thing you need to make sure of is that the water level remains to as near to the top of the plates as possible durring th eentire conditioning phase.You can allways just run like you wuld be in yer application...it will just make more gas once it gets conditioned good.You'll find that after it gets conditioned good the voltage responds faster and the current rises quicker.Of cource its still not going to be the best it will do till it gets at near 150 degrees.The serries cells respond prety quick.Its best to condition for a couple of days or around 12 to 24 hrs.Once you run it that long on freshly prepared plates(sanding ) you'll more than likely need to dump out the water and refill it again on fresh KOH solution.Once you get a stable output on start up you should be fine......im just try'n to help i may be wrong on some things.One thing you may want to do is run a week soltution to condition with for 12 hrs then dump it out and run stright distilled water in it for another 12 hrs and dump it out and then go for a full strenght soultion.Thats wat im gonna do next time and see how that works.

[glenn_aircooled]

I like your ideas Kevin. I normally run with weak KOH , on not too much
current for about three days, Then step it up a bit on the current.
Test to see how much output and at what efficiency. Then if not too bad,
I'll put in full strength ( 26 % by weight ) KOH in Distilled water.
Nice and fresh / clean , and give it a full Voltage Test. ( when I say
full voltage , I mean whatever the application is eg 13.8 V DC in car. )
-
I think its good idea to rinse out the unit with distilled water after emptying the
conditioning electrolyte. ( You filter the conditioning electrolyte for next
time. )

[freddyflatfoot]

Thanks guys!
Just cut up my new plates today, after I sanded them first! Got hold hold of some 0.9 mm 316, stiff enough, so should work well. I cut the plates with my jigsaw, using a cutting oil, to keep the work cool. worked well!
Anyway, will put it all together tomorrow and start conditioning!
Looking forward to giving the new cell a spin!
Cheers for now,
Rob

[freddyflatfoot]

On another note, I am looking at ways to fill my cell automatically. My biggest prob, is my own making, in that my gaps are only 1.6mm. So, apart from how I am going to set up my sensors, is how I will fill the cells. I admit that a tube across the top, with equidistant holes matching each cell is prob the best way to go, but have also been thinking of setting up a spray head, to fill the cells. I reckon if you set the spary pattern, so it only sprays to the full width of your cells, then the cells should fill evenly, Any thoughts/comments? Or has anyone tried this, and what succes did you have? Rob

[glenn_aircooled]

Rob, a usual gap between cells is 3mm. This does not mean that you wont get
good running unit. You may encounter some problems and some extra
experimenting.
Problem 1) ...as Kanarvon ( sorry forgot his name) found- the froth between
the plates reduced the output a little.
Problem 2) ...the froth pushes up and overflows the cell tops, causing
short paths for ions and thus Less Effective gas production.Also More current.
Experimenting ) ... You will probably find that the optimum with this
1.6mm gap is produced at much less KOH concentration, and you may
find lower voltages can be used BUT with reduced output - but
this will of course INCREASE efficiency.
-
Please let us know how it goes. Are you going to try Pulsing? This could
alleviate the problem.
-
The Kww 15 Plate works Well.
I havent had chance to Put in New Electrolyte. It is just running on some
old Conditioning electrolyte, probably about 14% concentration.
Even with this poor set up it has saved me money on fuel.
I need to get the wife to record some details.(she's on holidays without me).

[freddyflatfoot]

best of luck getting your missus to record details on fuel usage! been trying that with mine for years, with no success.
Hear what you are saying about the gap, but i have been finding that there is a lot of info on these forums, and some have suggested a minimum of 1mm, to 3mm, so was looking for a compromise gap. Also current chamber using sq S.S. tubes has same 1.6 mm gap, so using same material to maintain gap.
Just finsihed epoxying the cells this morning, so will start conditioning soon, after I check for leaks! Also thinking of using a urethane sealing spray, to properly seal around the edges, and reduce any chance of current leakage!
Was going to put the plates in a 4"PVc cylinder, but changed my mind. Gonna make a box with an incorporated bubbler at the end. Have also placed my cells on their 'side', so plates are noe only 85 mm high, and 180 mm long.
Think I'll also try the spray idea to fill the cells, just gotta work out how to connect a sensor. Other problem with using small gaps!Oh well, not to worry, sure it will work out.
Gonna go to the plastics factory now for some sheets, so catch you later,
Rob

[glenn_aircooled]

Yeah the tube across the top with holes spaced same as cells is good.
Can you have a " well " of electrolyte at the end.?
The small well will hopefully maintain at the same level as the electrolyte in the cells.
However if you are going the resin idea - then it probably will only self
level with " Agitation "....you know like a car on our NSW roads.!
And people wonder why I drive along bumping on the road reflectors.!

Only way I can think to sense inside the cells is with stainless wire inside very thin
insulating tube. At least you can vary the Voltage to this sensor by changing
which cell you put it in. eg put in the second last cell for approx 2 V to earth
when FULL.!
- Sorry I havent done this yet. But I probably will have to in future.

[glenn_aircooled]

[Mark Seymour]