AlaskaStar's Hydrogen Method vs Linnard Griffin Design

[AnointedReign]

In reality this post is directed more towards Thrival, on account that he was the first to grasp the operation of AlaskaStar's 'gag-order' hydrogen production method, for which AlaskaStar is not willing to provide any more information into until the order is lifted...

From reading Thrivals posts concerning AlaskaStar's hydrogen production a few questions of my own have arisen...

Thrival explained about building a Lexan plastic box (polycarbonate), which was seperated in the middle by what he called an "ionic membrane." On one side of the box would be placed a sufficient amount of "Iron Oxide" and on the other side you would place "Calcium Oxide". Then you would add diluted sulfuric acid with water to either or both sides of the box to create hydrogen (because acid eating the metals creates hydrogen). But before this you would adapt to the 'box' alternating - + stainless steel plates like in the brute force designs. Then while the acid is eating the metals of Calcium Oxide and Iron Oxide you would apply roughly 1.5 volts to the mixture through the plates causing the metals to "regenerate," but hydrogen production would cease during applying voltage. Then you would close off the voltage and the acid would begin to eat at the regenerated metals once again...

Am I correct in my synopsis of your explanation, Thrival?

If I am (and if I am not please explain in simple terms to me)...Then how does AlaskaStars design differ from Linnard Griffins patent? Ive seen a video of Griffin creating what seem to be a massive amount of hydrogen in his polycarbonate box... In the video he states something to this extent: "Here we can see the hydrogen production going crazy, I added too much catalyst to the "iron"...

So what I gather is that possibly Griffin's hydrogen reaction consists of Iron Oxide and diluted Sulfuric Acid mixed; but there was no voltage applied to his production...

Thrival, a few questions I have are:
1.Why is it neccessary to have two different metals.
2.What is the purpose of the ionic membrane?
3.Must you add diluted Sulfuric Acid to both metals?
4.Could you explain once again: "Why do you add 1.5 v current to the box"?
5.How long do you apply the voltage for?

Just seeing that Linnard Griffin video clip, I am convinced that his process is extremely effecient...Do you know how he constructed his box and the materials used, along with the chemicals involved in the reaction?

Also, which do you believe is more effecient of a design:Linnard Griffin's or AlaskaStar's...Does one design have benefits over the other design? It seems to me that either one of these designs are truly on the verge of creating with ease an onboard hydrogen production unit to run a vehicle...

Thanks

[AlaskaStar]

I am certain that Thrival could answer some things about the Griffin Patent.

In my system, there is NO VOLTAGE APPLIED, the reaction is caused by and cascade reacted by the voltage perpetuated by 2 dissimilar metals in an electrolyte. this has to do with ionic charge. if you do in fact study the periodic table of Elements, you will easily note that each different metal has obviously different weights, but also that they have a different number of electrons in the shell. this difference is what makes the world go round.

if everything was the same, and everything was balanced, there would be no energy, no heat, no cold, no light, no dark, no magnetism, no anti-magnetism, no gravity, no anti-gravity...get the point. so in this, it is to be noted that the difference of ionic charges sets up an electric variance between the metals.

My metals are NOT suspended in colloidal fashion, but rather globbed together, as one pre-fabricated peice, and the 2 metals cause a cascade reaction along the entire surface of BOTH METALS. the higher surface area allows for greater efficiency within the containment vessels size capacity.

Please excuse spelling errors as the end of my finger is still tender, I smashed it really hard at work and 3 days ago it fell off, and I literally did no feel it for 40 minutes, but the end is really tender, although not bleeding. thanks.

now continuing:

I also note that my reaction can be endothermic as well as exothermic, and has a typical bell curve pattern for reaction production time and amounts of hydrogen.

some, but very little water is actually converted to hydrogen and oxygen, but for the mass of the output, it is mostly PURE hydrogen, and NOT hydrogen sulfide, or other mixes of hydrogen with other gasses or metallic materials.

In my reaction, there is no wire to connect nor disconnect, and the reaction can only be stopped by means of "flushing" the system out from the reactant materials, and replacing quickly with pure water.

Another to note is that in my process, the material is simply "dropped" in and linnards is already in place. his is inplace, and he activates it with voltage. mine is purely a drop in, "pill in water" to say reaction that make hydrogen gas. I would NOT advocate reacting it in a vehicle for obvious safety reasons. (overpressure, heat from improper mixture, jostling, and the most obvious, what happens in a wreck to stop the reaction??????)

so While Linnards system is in my opinion a better way to go as far as making hydrogen "On-Demand" to say, and I am aware that they are patenting our english language and I am not trying to infrige on anybodies copywrights, but the term was in use for YEARS PRIOR TO IT BEING DOMINATED BY A SMALL CORPORATION! -off soapbox- and while his technology is extremely protable, mine is not in pure logistical sense. the output materials are fertilizer, and this needs to be dried, and packaged, and the metals removed for re-use, and yadda-yadda. the setup for my process works more efficiently in a manufacturing plant condition type setup, while linnards can by carried around to supply hydrogen to a laptop computer fuel cell, and the output from that back to the linnard griffin hydrogen box.

I do applaud Dr. Griffin for his success and I Sincerely wish him the best, as the world does need this technology change to happen.

As I am aware that the previous statement precludes me just giving away the "secret formula," so to say, I prefer not to, and rather teach what it takes to simply understand how it works, that way when something does go wrong in the garage/lab that you understand what it was, what caused it, and prevent bodily harm and property damage. I should not be alive for this process took me by suprise when the amounts of hydrogen gasses were so plenty that it found it's way to the pilot light in the furnace and blasted me backwards 20 feet to the inside of the garage door, effectively breaking every window on it (we just put boards on them anyway) and covering me with water. scared the daylights ouyt me to see this lightblue wall of flame and the impressive noise and explosive power.
fortunately the other 2 doors were wide open for "hopeful" ventilation as the winter winds here blow pretty good, and heat was not my first concern until the windows were borken out by me being thrown and impacting the door backwards. (words of wisdom: DO NOT WANT TO EVER DO THAT AGAIN! DO NOT TRY AT HOME OR IN GARAGE WITH PILOT LIGHT OR GAS FURNACE OF ANY TYPE!)

Seriously, Dr. Griffin has a pretty good peice, and yes it does in fact differ from mine, and not just in chemicals, but also in operation, functionality, portability, the input/output materials, and such forth.

That's all I can offer, even though it was written for Thrival to answer, and he is more than welcome to put his thoughts on this in here, even if certain members would rather not see anything that he posts here, like the site administrator and my posts, and that is a difference of opinion for another topic in another area of the forum.

AlaskaStar

[AnointedReign]

[AlaskaStar]

[thrival]

My first observation is Linnard Griffin and AlaskaStar are in some
kind of competition for which neither party volunteered to be a part.

I've read Mr. griffin's patent a couple times and simple as it is, as far
as ingredients, I do not pretend to understand it; otherwise I might
have patented it myself, licensed it, etc. as he has. I'm humble enough
to know when my opinion doesn't count for squat.

The calcium/iron cell isn't the way AlaskaStar does it, and yet it's the
same in principle-- two dissimilar metals with sufficient electrovoltaic
potential difference to make hydrogen from water, by adding a charge
carrier-- sulfuric acid. Note I have not built the cell so all discussion is
hypothetical, theoretical, for what that's worth. Yes I do think it will
work. The ionic membrane is to prevent the two chemicals from
mixing because if they did you couldn't separate the charges to make
it work like a battery. You only want the sulfate ion to pass through.

Actually I'd only use sulfuric acid on one of the materials so the other
was 'hungry' for it. If both were sulfated, there would be an over-
abundance of acid and difficult to get it to shunt from one side to the
other. Of course in water it will find it's way across the membrane
anyway. You can buy calcium sulfate (gypsum) or iron sulfate. You want
one or the other but not both. Calcium sulfate has low solubility, basically
sets up like a rock (plaster of paris) so needs to be powderized after this
has occurred. This setting action should happen only once as this property
is intentionally created by heating the gypsum at the factory, as artists
and mold-makers find it useful. The low solubility means the reaction could
be slow as well. The other ingredient should be an oxide, either calcium or
iron, but of course you can use anything else with at least 1.25V - 2V
difference that 1. likes H2SO4 and 2. makes H2 when exposed to it. See
Linus Pauling's General Chemistry tables.

If I were doing this project myself I would use PVC pipe, connected at
the bottom in the shape of a U. I'd put the ionic membrane (battery
separator) in the juncture pipe. I'd use spiral-wound shimstock for
greatest surface area contact with the chemicals, as in Ant Davidson's
"kettle." Boxes are problematic to make and can leak or burst. PVC pipe
and connectors will let you throw a cell together quickly. Check your
materials to insure compatibility. My memory is foggy since the discussion
happened a while back.

If you start with one sulfate and one oxide of dissimilar materials having
the necessary electrovoltaic potential difference, by adding water the
reaction should start then. Note you should also be making electricity
while making hydrogen so save one. Once equilibrium is reached you will
need energy to drive the sulfate back to one side or the other. You should
have made enough electricity to do that, the H2 is gravy. But of course
you need to be charging batteries or some such, to save the electricity
you made. A number of units can be series-wired to provide a battery of
the desired voltage, or one unit charging another, like a chemical
oscillator. Note you might need some help from your alternator but that's
from power you generated burning the hydrogen, so still OU. The total
weight of material necessary to make enough H2 to power your vehicle
could make it heavy. Personally I like lighter weight methods and is
why my interest has wandered to the Joe Cell. I get joy in figuring
things out, then I move to something else. It's the intellectual challenge
that motivates me. I don't have the space or money to do all the
experiments my mind comes up with, or deal with the left-overs.

[AnointedReign]

AlaskaStar: I appreciate your willingness as an inventor to keep others ideas under wraps for moral reasons, but all I can say is that, I, as many other people on this board seek to run a car on hydrogen or orthohydrogen...So if it is possible to do so with someones patent, then why hold that back?...Its not like I could produce the patent and sell it on a large scale or even small (as Big Brother is everywhere, even in my own town)...And besides I dont want to end up like Stanley Meyers...But nonetheless I will respect your viewpoint.

Thrival: Thanks for the input, I think I understand now...All except how long the current is to be applied...Do you have any suggestions?

As for the Joe Cell...Incredibly brilliant! Now if someone could figure out how to run a Fuel Injected auto with a Joe Cell.

[AlaskaStar]

I suggest that If you wish to run a car on H2 and O, that you would heed to the ways of a horspower fanatic and to do EVERYTHING OPPOSITE that a racing team would do. this includes the omission of an intercooler, using less airflow, more radiator, smaller throttles, and slight back-pressure of the exhaust, as opposed to open exhaust, large throttles, large lift and duration of the cams and lifters/rockers, cold air and lots of it, and more fuel.

see running on hydrogen uses more fuel to achieve performance for the calorific value of h2 is extremely low. so instead of making tons of power, make less power, and more efficiency. make a "level keel" to say, where you have power and efficiency.

I would in a conversion to hydrogen, first if the electrolyser is to be used for on the go production, NOT put it as a "light bulb of the circuit" to say. I would use a passive electrolyser or a "pass-through" type system. secondly, I would not remove the throttle plates as people typically do in their full fledged conversion, i would wire the darn things in the fully CLOSED POSITION, and use what very little air come past, and use engine vacuum to draw the hydrogen to fuel the engine, controlling it with a variable fuel restrictor, which can be as simple as a ball valve.

to put it simply, the engine is an RPM based system, and regardless of power losses, the rpm can be increased to compsensate. this means running longer in lower gears, wider ratios between gears and a close ratio final drive for higher efficiency at level load/road speed.

this is not easy to type, the end of my injured finger fell off a while back (less than a month) and i just seriously injured my left index finger 2 hours ago, and the cut goes to the vein and the slice is 1 and 1 half inches long, on the palm-side, so in leu of those 2 fingers, i am using 3 fingers per hand to type, and it's not easy. so please forgive me if this message is hard to understand. i persue things relentlessly, and never give up.

anyway this is what i would do to a vehicle for hydrogen useage. the production is up to you on the method to use.

AlaskaStar

[AlaskaStar]

[thrival]