Kww 15 Plate ...series Booster.

[glenn_aircooled]

I will put pic on project section soon.
Kevins idea is very nice...!
I wanted to build it because it is a compact design that packs a fair bit
of plate size and his method is quite Quick and Cheap.
I stuck his 15 plate in a 4 inch pvc tube.
I made it approx 10 inches high.
It basically has two seven cell series units running in parrallel.
So picture 15 plates, similar to my Avatar but with a connection tag in the middle
and a connection at each end.
I am putting positive in the centre and connecting neg to both the ends.
-
So Series cells means that across any two plates - there can be a maximum of
2 V ( on my car because it has generator at 14 V ).
It is in some respects a Series / parallel unit because it has two series
cells running out from the central connection.
All plates are sealed down both sides and across their bottoms.
When I pour water into the middle, it just sits there in the middle and doesnt flow any where. Unless I shake it a bit like in a car , then some will
slosh over into the next cell. Keeping the level may be a bit of a problem.
Some set up small leakage between cells to keep the level even.
This has the dissadvantage of reducing efficiency. Kevins System of
assembly works so well that it seals completely.
The plates are 1.2 mm thick ( probably 304 stainless but I hope they are
316 Grade - cause its better ) from old Laboratory equipement.
This stuff would not attract a rare earth magnet at all.
Spacers are 3.2mm because that was the thickness of the perspex sheet
I had to cut up. All plates are Cross Hatch sanded.
I used Two Part Epoxy Resin glue ( you know the 24 Hr " super Strrong Stuff )
Spread all over the sides and bottom of the " Stack ".
Once this set I wrapped nylon string tightly around the bundle and put more Epoxy on the corners. then I inserted the Whole thing into a 4 inch
tube. A very Snug fit. I am in the process of sealing the two ends with
Roofing silastic ( no acetic acid ). and also smearing Silastic over the sides
as well. This should back up the epoxy , just in case I get any stress cracks
from the vibration in a car.
I probably will go with one electrical connection in the centre TOP and
then two electrical connections from the sides.
The Gas out will be right over to one side on the top as will be the Water
( Distilled Water of Course ) inlet pipe. I will probably set up a gravity feed
system again. This unit is going in a van and there is ample room above
for a container, but it is a bit difficult to open the unit where it is sitting.
-
Plate sizes: Metric ( sorry ) 210mm High.... 83 mm wide
So this gives 54 Square Inches of effective Anode ( one face ) because
there are two sets in parrallel.
Thats 756 Sq Inches of total plate area. All under about 11 inches and
4 inch pipe.
In my reckoning 54 Sq " means 27 A of fairly efficient or 13 A of Very Efficient
electrolysing. Its equivalent to plates 9 inches x 6 inches ( 8 plates for 7 cells.)
I really hope the Wife appreciates all this technology and work.!

[Bob Boyce]

Hey Glenn

Please keep me updated on how it works for you. Compare production with either side running by itself, to both sides running at the same time,and let me know. I really am curious to see if you end up with the same results as I did. I did the exact same thing with the 7 cell booster design in the 16 slot prototype box. Myself and one other replicator both measured the same reduction in output as compared to 2 seperate series 7 cell units in parallel that were further away from one another.

It seemed to be a magnetic response to having 2 opposing magnetic fields in close proximity, as compared to reinforcing magnetic fields from one cell to the next, adding to the total. This effect was also noted, but more pronounced, in parallel cells, where the alternating plate polarities cause a null effect to the magnetic fields, cancelling each other out.

It was exactly this type of response that made me kinda doubtful of the validity of the high production claims that Frank Roberts had made as far as gas production, because his was a 3 series sets of 20 parallel plates in the same box. Each set of 20 parallel plates would have had opposing magnetic fields at every cell. If that design had worked so well, I would not have switched away from it back in the 80s.

Bob

Edited to add. What I meant about switching away from it back in the 80s was referring to parallel plates vs series plates. I had noted the difference in performance and efficiency back then.

[glenn_aircooled]

Again I seem to be weeding out the failures, It certainly looks like a great
concept, With what you found, I had better look at a small pulse / step
up transformer to a little over 25 V.
A shame this was supposed to be a quick one / cheap to whack in the Wifes Van.
I will let you know, but I dont expect to change the mold with mine.
Hey this might be a good use for the Dave Lawton Pulse unit, that would give me some fun from it. I'd crank the timing down to plain square waves and put through a almost 1 : 2 transformer, I wonder if I could induce some Harmonics into it.?
Thanks Bob , at least I wont get my hopes up and be left wondering
where I went wrong.

[Bob Boyce]

Glenn, don't be too quick to doom it just based on what I posted. I really am curious to know if you experience the same thing. I like to hear if results from others experiments confirm results of similar experiments of mine or not. In this way we learn from one another, and can explore/exploit anomolies that work to our benefit.

Since it does have sets of series cells, it will still work a lot better than the "steaming behemoth" boosters.

I just wanted to mention that there was a measurable drop in production and efficiency in the tests that I and another experimenter had made, on common anode or common cathode series cell pairs, as compared to purely series cells with their cell polarity energies in phase.

I am not entirely sure if this is purely a magnetic effect, some other unknown field effect, or a combination of the two. I really would love to know! As we know, I don't know everything, and I'm wanting to learn all I can.

Bob

[glenn_aircooled]

Pics are on the project page NOW.
http://oupower.com/index.php?dir=_Other ... &PageNum=1

Sorry I missed out getting good documentation of the Initial construction.
I was Very keen to get it assembled, and it stuck inside the tube....
Probably because it was not fully dried when I trial assembled it.
I will mock up one later to show Kevins concept.
Very easy ( maybe a bit fiddly ), but cheap .! And successful.!

[Bob Boyce]

Looks like a nice booster Glenn. I really like how you can make the rectangular cells fit into pipe so well How about trying ABS pipe rather than PVC, ABS holds up better to engine heat.

Bob

[kevinsatterfield]

Hey Glen that is a kewl thang ya got there....allready made run off tanks ...thats nice.

[nickle989]

Nice job on plate placement. I was wondering what I was going to do with the rectangular plates I have, Now I know

Bob Boyce ... I was reading on Wikipedia about 3 phase power ( as retrieved an my old caddy alternator on the weekend). It was saying that one of the bennifits of a 3 phase motor system is it produces the magnetic field it a circular fashion. I am wondering it this may have pulse effect on the plates ? I have some heavy duty diodes that I can use to convert the phase's to DC. If I convert each phase to DC and would I be able to get that magnetic effect onb the plates using a 3 sets of series cell plates?

I am hoping to have your PMW built this week and built a series cell this week end.

[glenn_aircooled]

Thank You Bob , Kevin , Nickel for your comments, ideas.
Nickel , I have learnt that it is better to have plates WIDER rather
than LONGER. If you can make box and have your rectangle plates
Longer along the bottom then you will get a better output.
- The problem with Tall thin units is that the bubbles tend to get congested
as they rise, thats why square plates are better & wider units probably
even better again. You will have more Slosh problems if used in a car
However.
-
I fired it up about two hours ago, it seemed to start up amazingly
well ( later found out I had the Water level too high ).
I decided to do a " Test Too Early " before it is even had a decent
Conditioning. So warmed it up and..................
-
13.1 V....5.8 A....41 Sec for 200ml... 17.56 LPH.....4.3 W/ LPH.....
-
So we see that the efficiency is very poor at present - but conditioning
will improve that. It is already making decent gas but I guess you
expect something with Big surface area. Oh ambient 20 Deg C, and
unit 46 Deg C....... This was achieved by running it Over Level for
a while. Yes it made lots of steam....
I lowered the level of Water ( incidently , this is a low Concentration
of KOH - just for Conditioning ) and ran the above test, I hope I lowered it enough,
May be some issues there.

[glenn_aircooled]

Yeah the Tube " Thing ".....well its a matter of using what you have available.
I havent bought my flat sheet yet, and had to stick it something.
It does have the advantage of being strong container.
Yes ABS would be better heat capabilities but I dont intend on getting it too
hot. One thing I like is that the PVC seems to heat up quite quickly and
of course this can add to efficiency ( when the outside heat is being absorbed
by the reaction - it will help ) So I wonder if ABS would in fact insulate the chamber.?
I know that I am probably already running a little too hot to
be in the Exothermic
area, but what the heck it sounds Technical.!!
It has fluid reserves " or overflow " catches.
The screw on lids with O- ring mack sealing easy too.
Of course the outlet is a push on pipe in case of Flash back.
-
So I'm pushing this along to get it in the Wife's car, looks like will
have time...But testing will be short cut.

[Bob Boyce]

PVC will get hot enough at underhood temperatures that it deforms even at the low pressures involved, and where nuts apply pressure at power feed points, the PVC will give under that little pressure and cause leaks. ABS pipe is usually available in most of the same larger tubing sizes and fittings/couplers as PVC. It is that black PVC looking stuff used as sewer drain pipe.

Bob

[gas-mechanic]

[MarkinAustralia]

[glenn_aircooled]

[coffeyw]