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OUPower.com • View topic - New kind of cell test...

New kind of cell test...

This forum is for discussing anything related to electrolysis and electrolyzer designs.

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New kind of cell test...

Postby Bart West-VL. » Sat Jun 10, 2006 6:14 am

just beginning to learn...
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Postby FarrahDay » Sat Jun 10, 2006 6:30 am

Farrah Day.
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Postby glenn_aircooled » Sat Jun 10, 2006 7:04 am

Glenn , See Ya.
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Postby Bart West-VL. » Sat Jun 10, 2006 11:25 am

I decided to reply here as well as on the project page, so it wont get to messy to follow and also out of politeness towards the person who asked the question(s)

FarrahDay;
1. External diameter of your outer electrode/casing
88,9mm
2. External diameter of inner electrode
48,3mm
3. Thickness of tubes
2mm
The other tubes are 60,3mm and 76,1mm
spacing is respectively 3mm, 4mm, 3mm.
The surface has been ruffed up with a regular small grinding stone on a drilling machine, as far as I could reach inside and outside.
4. Length of tubes
Outer tube is 280mm, The inner tubes are 250mm
The advantage of having the same surface area on both negative and positive tubes is, that there is no lost surface anywhere in the cell, not even the outer tube, because it functions as an outside casing and at the same time it provides a surface on the inside.
When the surface areas are different on neg. and pos., the larger part is a lost of space and weight.
A Joe-cell has only a little neg. tube on the inside, so the current strenght on the small tube will be to high to be efficient, while the outer tube has all the surface it needs and much more, to be efficient.
That's why I came up with this, after reading about normal plate designs, considering the presure, this can handle a lot more then a plate design and as a result weigh much less.

The bottom and top plate are 3mm thick, only 150% of the tubes, but it's not the intension to put huge pressures in this thing, so I don't think the plates will bend easily and if they do, I'll make them thicker.



glenn_aircooled;
What voltage are you going to put across the cell?
The goal is about 1,2V. A little more if it won't work.
So in a car this would mean at least ten cells! Quite a lot, I know, butt that's for later, it's just a first test, from here I can change the whole setup to work in a car.
Anyway I want a welder, but running this in a car to improve mileage would be nice of course, but I'm trying to be realistic ;)

- Are you going to do an output test ? where you
bubble gas into an upturned water filled container and measure
the voltage and current supplied to do it.
Yes, but not yet.
I'm trying to progress a.s.a.p., but for now it has been almost a week since the last modifications.
I had a very bad experience this week, so it had to wait, but it has nothing to do with the cell.
Hoping to continue next week.

ALL comment/considerations are welcome, also the less plesant ones!
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Postby FarrahDay » Sat Jun 10, 2006 12:07 pm

Hi Bart

I haven't done the sums yet, but a quick glance at your specs would indicate to me that in fact your surface areas are still very different and not that closely matched.

Does this not also mean that you have lots of tube surface area effectively doing nothing?

Obviously I'm still playing about with this myself at present, but my suspiscions are that the outer tubes differing in surface area to all the inner tubes might actually be a factor in making these cells work as well as they do.

Varying charge densities on the various tubes might actually play a part in increasing effeciency. Time will tell I suppose. Keep up the good work.
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Postby Bart West-VL. » Sat Jun 10, 2006 5:59 pm

Hi FarrahDay,

The inner side of the outer tube is one surface (lets call it negative)
The outer AND inner side of the seccond largest tube is the other surface (positive)
The innner AND outer surface of the third tube is again negative.
The small tube only uses the outside. again positive.
Thats why the total surface of the negative is the same (allmost anyway) as the surface of the positive.
In other words, tube 1 and 3 are negative, tube 2 and 4 are positive.
Please recalculate, then you will see what I mean.
It's a bit confusing I presume, but the small tube and the second largest tube are connected via the perforated round plate on top of them.
The other two tubes are connected via the bottom plate.

If I'm not clear enough, I'll be happy to draw a small scetch, let me know.

ß.
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Postby Bob Boyce » Sat Jun 10, 2006 10:49 pm

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Postby FarrahDay » Sun Jun 11, 2006 3:02 am

Farrah Day.
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Postby Bart West-VL. » Sun Jun 11, 2006 3:54 am

just beginning to learn...
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Postby Bart West-VL. » Sun Jun 11, 2006 4:00 am

just beginning to learn...
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Postby Bob Boyce » Sun Jun 11, 2006 11:28 am

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Postby golden_guppy » Tue Jun 13, 2006 10:40 am

OK, there seems to be some confusion here, but after looking at the project images again, i have to agree with Bart West and say that this IS a flooded single cell, similar in fact to the spiral design allready shown on this site, but here the concentric deisgn is nice and simple, and we dont have any nasty math to worry about, so construction should be quick and painless.

I've knocked up this cut through diagram which should illustrate it better. Appologies for its crudeness.

...just need to find a source of stainless steel pipe now.

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Postby Bart West-VL. » Tue Jun 13, 2006 11:32 am

Nothing crude about that, golden_guppy!
Thanks for the effort :D

Bob has a good point about the "hot spot", but I believe that, where the hot spot is, the gas will give a higher resistance, so the current will flow where there is less resistance, being the rest of the surface area.

About heating up; I'm not worried about that (or I'm not getting this right yet)
This cell schould be able to take 100A, when I'm calculating at 0.5A per inch².
Also, is it not so, that a voltage below 1.5V per cell, will keep the cell cool?
That's what eventualy would be the end product: ~1.3V per cell.
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Postby Bob Boyce » Tue Jun 13, 2006 1:43 pm

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Postby Bart West-VL. » Tue Jun 13, 2006 2:07 pm

just beginning to learn...
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