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OUPower.com • View topic - Low energy Input, mass hydrogen output methods in use.

Low energy Input, mass hydrogen output methods in use.

This forum is for discussions regarding Hydrogen Production by all means OTHER than Electrolysis. It is also for discussing the end results of Hydrogen Applications such as Water Engines & Water Cars.

seeing is beliving

Postby electrician » Fri Apr 07, 2006 3:51 pm

Hi There!
We are all working together to achieve a common goal to run a car on hydrogen. But most of us never saw one only believed in it. We all looked the videos try to get the details. We all experimented , made little progress, asked questions and newer get the right answer. What about if we can see a real one. Alaska star is claiming in his area there are several such cars. Can we see them? Can we get inspiration and support? All of us spent a bunch of money on experiments which were repeated by other guys all over and all over again. But we are still miles beyond the ones who has better brain or better oportunity. I do not see if I can invent the hydrogen powered car in the forseeable future. Instead of wasting money and effort individually , What about if we see a working prototype and if we see how it really works we all share our experience on this pages and build our own dream machine? If alaska star permits I like to propose a visit of few of us to see how it is done.

I found an other website similar to this one, well organized and it contains a bunch of videos. / this inspired me to see a working car/
But there is a catch. The site is not in english lanquage. But the videos /most of them/ are and the links are refering to english sites.
Some words to better your browsing experience:
viz = water
kattints ide or kattints itt = means klick here
vizauto = water car

the links are highlited yellow.

This is their address:

http://fenykapu.free-energy.hu/pajert/i ... _lista.htm

The members are making progress by sharing info on this pages. The moderator is an electronic enginner who is really into making this work.
They are working on the Horvat patent 3,980.053 but something is missing yet.

One more thing:

On one of the videos there is a gentleman puting water into a gun like device connected to a power source and igniting the gas generated. This is what we are after. He has a german patent. If someone can translate it into english it would be beneficial for all of us.
This is his patent description:
http://v3.espacenet.com/textdoc?IDX=DE3 ... &DB=EPODOC
Good hunting.
do something good for the community
electrician
 
Posts: 2
Joined: Sat Mar 25, 2006 10:12 pm

Postby Brett » Fri Apr 07, 2006 5:31 pm

elec this is what babelfish makes of it, comes out a little backwards sometimes but its readable

happy reading



Kind of the registration article: The invention the nucleon drive by water concerns a technical mechanism, where with the help of the water as an energy mediator mechanical work is manufactured. It splits the water on its structure components, excites the atoms and reconnects finally these in the cylinders. The explosion energy is partly used as mechanical work. The heat component of the o. g. energy is used to energy enriching and partial splitting water in the preheating container. From enriching the Hydroxoniumion (H3O) results. Data for kind: The invention the nucleon drive by water converts the energy stored in the water on nucleon-chemical (physical) principle into mechanical work. The invention to understand we want first times the energy mediator, the water examine (as chemical compound and/or the characteristics their components). - the hydrogen (V:1:1H 1p) The subject (connections, elements) is formed from molecules and/or atoms. The behavior, which chemical and physical characteristic of a connection or an element determined accumulation of the molecules and/or atoms by the position, change, movement, therefore is essential it to take the atoms under the magnifying glass. 1 mol is alike with the quantity, which just as much atoms, it contains molecules (or ions) how many carbon atoms in 12,00 gram of pure coal is (6. 10). The atom as elementary particles is certain by its indications, relative mass and charge. Its diameter 10 cm, which is diameter of the core 10 cm. EMI6.1 The number of the protons with positive charge, which are in the core, is alike with the number of the electrons with negative charge. The atom is thus electrically neutral. The collective name of the protons and neutrons is called nucleon. The nucleons are converted under certain circumstances into one another: p + e - n; n - p + e The hydrogen atom kan 1p proton have: 1p + 1-2n, therefore can be called the hydrogen atom isotope atom. The self dismantling of the isotopes results in the radioactivity. The isotopes developed in such a way are radioactive. In the cores of the radioactive atoms the number of the protons mostly changes, by emitting radioactive radiation. The substantial characteristics of the electrons of the atoms are certain by the quantum numbers. This number has always certain quantity EMI7.1 The principal quantum number characterizes the measure of the average distance between the electrons and core as well as the energy of the electrons. It is always an integer. The azimuthal quantum number characterizes the form of the Eketronen in the area. It is always integer. Their indication is 1. It can be expressed also with letters: 1 = 0 1 2 3 s p D f Electron trajectory is called the space part around the core, where the electrons (and/or electron) spend most time. The electron trajectories are designated as follows: the principal quantum number always with numbers the azimuthal quantum number always with letters: 1s, 2p, 3d, 4f. . . 1s n=1 and l=0 The courses with same principal quantum number form the coverings belonged to principal quantum number 1 for 2 3 4 5 6 7 covering K L M N O P Q. The K - Covering has 1 Unterhuelle 1s with max. 2 electrons L - covering has 2 Unterhuelle 2s;2p with max. 8 electrons the M - covering has 3 Unterhuelle 3s;3p;3d with max. 18 electrons the N - covering has 4 Unterhuelle 4s;4p;4d;4g with 32 electrons The place of an atom in the periodic table (system of the atoms and elements) is determined by its proton number, the nuclear charge number is called (generally an atom contains the same number of protons as neutrons). 6C; 7N; 8O; 9F The difference of the nuclear charge number and the mass number results in the number of the neutrons in the core V:1:1H 1p -; V:16:8O 8p 8n; V:4:2He 2p 2n; V:12:6C 6p 6n The hydrogen contains such atoms, whose core has only one proton, but gives it also which, which has two neutrons beside the proton also in or. The atoms of chemical elements (e.g. H) with same nuclear charge number (proton number) however with different mass numbers of hot isotopes. H - Isotope with mass number of 1 1p: V:1:1H (the simplest H - atom) EMI8.1 These three H - isotopes occur in accordance with certain relationship in the gas and at all in nature. 1p V:1:1H 99.986% EMI8.2 That means it that the relationship between V:1:1H - isotope and V:2:1H isotope 5000 to 1 are. The electron trajectory of the H - atom (s) is always spherically symmetrically independent of whether it around the 1s, 2s, or 3s - electron trajectory goes. By "ball" an electron cloud with indistinct outline is to be understood. Due to Energiezufuler the electrons step it on an electron trajectory with higher energy level, develop an excited atom. The used energy is called orbital energy. The energy level of the electron trajectories increases in that rubbing follows from 1s, 2s, 3s, 3p. On the 1s - electron trajectory are two electrons with opposite spin. The only electron of the H - is atom with initial state on the 1s - electron trajectory of the K - covering. By appropriate energy input the H - atom excited, its electron steps on the 2s - becomes electron trajectory of L - covering. Due to further excitation the electron steps it on electron trajectories with ever larger principal quantum number, increases the energy level of the atom, until the electron from the attraction of the core out-breaks. Thus ion with positive charge develops and an electron independent of it from the neutral H - atom an H -. The indication of the ionization energy is egg, their massness is EMI9.1 The H - Molecule is four times faster than the O - molecule. With the H - Molecule is the molecule speed equal to with the quotient of the protons - and electron mass 1840. 1 mol hydrogen (2.016 g) contains 6,023. 10 molecules. The mass of a hydrogen molecule amounts to therefore mH = 3,34. 10 g - the mass of a hydrogen atom: mH = 1,67. 10 g. The diameter of an H - atom: EMI10.1 According to the Boyle - Mariottei law is the average value of the molecule speed of EMI10.2 (constant), of it rho = the density m = the weight p = 760 torr = 1,013. 10 N. m with 0 DEG C @1: @2 = 2ROOT: 2ROOT hydrogen - density rho = 0.0899 g/l for hydrogen EMI10.3 the charge of the ion is indicated beside the chemical indication: EMI10.4 From 1 mol of H - atom with gas condition forms by 1310 kJ to energy-supply 1 mol h ion with gas condition. The volume of a mol (6. 10 molecules) is - with 25 DEG C and with pressure of 1 atm.-24,5 DM (24500 cm). Turned around: 1dm = 0,24. 10 molecules. The H - Atoms form Kovalentbindung by common Elektronenpare and it develop with one another one molecule course each instead of electron trajectory. The electrons, which bring the connection, since they move on common mole cooling course, are called binding electron. The energy of the H - connection is 1/10 of the energy of a primary connection. The energy of a Kovalentbindung is the energy, which is necessary, in a given molecule of two atoms ties together. The energy of the connection becomes on 1 mol subject (6. 10) referred. The energies of the unique connections are (with 25 DEG C): EMI11.1 Hydrogen: Standard. Density (with 0 DEG C and 760 torr) 0.0899 g. DM Kub. coefficient of expansion 0.00366 degrees melting point - 259.2 DEG CSiedepunkt - 252.8 DEG CDichte 0.0899 g/l - the oxygen V:16:8O: The two Elektronenpare of the O - form atom with ever an electron of two H - atom zweikowalentbindung a water molecule develops. The H - Molecule is four times as fast as the O - molecule. Thus the molecule speed of the oxygen @ = 460 m/s. Remain in the O - atom of two free pairs of electrons. Thus around the O - atom are two binding and two not binding pairs of electrons. The connection angle is 105 DEG, the water molecule is V - foermig and dipole, i.e. the spatial arrangement of the binding and/or not binding pairs of electrons is asymmetrical. - the water H2O: The water has three states of aggregation, about which the invention is occupied only with two: with the liquid and with the gas-like. The practical use of the water as liquid of element is age-old. (shipping, mill, washing and s. w.). The Altgriche Heron became first times attentive to the strength, which arises due to the state of aggregation change of the water. (by its stretch 1 cm water supplies 1700 cm water vapour under normal print). Heron had only carried out its invention as toy. (ball of Heron). This idea is recently discovered and further developed during the technical revolution of James Watt. Its steam engine had the coal as energy source. In modern form such mechanisms are still in enterprise. The efficiency of steam engines (locomotives) is with eta = 18 to 20% For large achievements (e.g. power stations) one could reach turbines up to 40%. The pressure the state of aggregation change of the water freely becoming energy is thus only 20-40%-ig usable. Therefore the investigation of the electro-chemical, the Nukleonenrgie of the water is necessary. Up to the equilibrium the water dunstet (as liquid). With the equilibrium steam over the liquid is called saturated steam and its pressure sattdampfdruck. The temperature, at which the steam pressure over the liquid is 1 RK, is called point of simmering. 1873 had Lavoasier determined that on hot eisenplatte water develops pouring for ferric oxide, during hydrogen become free. We win water, if hydrogen burns becomes. 2 H2 + CO2 = 2 H2O (steam) + 116 kcal 2. 2 g 2. 16 g 2. 18 g 4 g 32 g = 36 g That means: 2 mol of H2 (4 gram) connects itself with 1 mol of CO2 (32 gram) to water, as 116 kcal amount of heat becomes freely. To decomposition of 1 mol hydrogen (6. 10) (H2 H + H) we must use 103 kcal amount of heat. The water has large absorptive capacity, which comes on the same reason, like the solution ability. During the discussion of the oxygen it was to be seen that the two not binding pairs of electrons of the O - atom waerend the emergence of the water molecule does not commit itself, thus the water molecule possesses free electrons. Mass defect is called this feature. EMI13.1 Without the water as chemical compound would change can one these two not binding pairs of electrons of the oxygen tie. So the water can hold strange subject as absorber (Loeser). The water is thus capable of taking up also radioactive subject. (therefore e.g. the Atommuehl in the sea is stored). This characteristic water uses also the invention the nucleon drive by water like it follows: The water enriched in the Vorwaermebehelter through to energy-supply (and/or steam) is led into the Kuehleonbehaelter, where it decomposes - due to current effect - on its components. In the final area the permeability is practically alike to 0. Steam pumped out from there continues to flow into reservoirs, and therefore in cylinder due to the current effect as well as the warmth stored in the Vorwaermebehelter the complex process is accelerated. (the cylinder temperature is cca. 3000 DEG C, those in the radiator on cca. 125 DEG C one cools down). The amount of heat of the difference is used to save energy. Since it concerns final system, the free electrons can tie H - ions (H) of the oxygen only. Therefore Hydroxoniumion (H3O) develops - instead of water - already in the Vorwaermebehelter. According to the o. g. Absorbtionsvermoegen I would like to describe still the following: 1. In clean water (e.g.: the distilled water) also takes place the following process: EMI14.1 EMI14.2 So we can state that the water also acid or cousin is simultaneous can, because the concentrations of the Hydroxoniumionen and hydroxyl ions agreeing is. This equilibrium is dynamic. If in the solution the concentration of the Hydroxoniumionen is larger than the hydroxyl ions, then the chemical effect saeuerlich - opposite is basic. E.g.: The dissolution of hydrogen chloride: EMI14.3 In the drinking water we find several minerals: Approx., well, Cl, K. . ., therefore the o. g. takes place process. We call this process elektrolitische dissociation. The water orders enormous absorptive capacity, then it can absorb different gases. E.g.: the soda water: EMI15.1 If we eye-solved in distilled water very little acid, - need or simply the drinking water - to be able we to to be sowing tiger condition hydrogen to only absorb. This process leads us to the clean Hydroxoniumionen H3O to reach. 2. The verbrennungsenergie of the hydrogen is three times larger than the today's (e.g.: Gasoline and s. w.) Driving off energy, which I into remark examples (when Energiebilans) prove has. It meant that we can increase the achievements of the engines, set therefore we can the generator and battery on the optimal achievement. The electricity helps to split the water. The explosion in the cylinder will develop of the spark plugs, where by sucking in piston will supply the lubricating oil. 3. In the principal claim I already wrote that the exposition energy partly as mechanical work, the heat component to energy enriching in the preheating container and in the nucleon container - loud the Sankey diagram (cooling water and exhaust gases) 82,800 kJ/kg used. For it is all the same to the water splitting whether we which energy need. All energy supply makes excitation, the rate of motion water molecule in such a way is thus increased that it splits on the components. This process plays itself also between 2 electrical Poland (+; -) off, which also uses the invention. In the cylinder that will burn hydrogen (by explosion), reconnects so the water becomes. State of the art: The usual energy sources of our time are the following: - the coal: Application: - thermal power station (current production) - general heating material - the radioactive materials: It used in excited was entitled as energy mediators. (nuclear energy and s. w.). - air: Its kinetic energy (wind) is used and converted into electricity and/or mechanical work. - the natural gas: After promotion and refining it is used as heating and explosion material. - the oil: After promotion and refining its by-products are used as nutubare sources of energy. It is nowadays the most important and most general material, which is to the energy consumption at the disposal. (engines). The motor vehicles function with Bensin and diesel oil (by-products). - the water: The gewoenliche utilization is two different kinds: - by its kinetic energy - by change in volume energy (change of the state of aggregation). - solar power, gravitation energy: The applicable experiments are few well-known. Alone that these solutions do not durchstzen themselves in the everyday life life, it supplies the fact the sufficient reason of further orientations. Criticism of the state of the art: - the coal: Their use is pollutive in large measure with extremely poisonous verbrennungsprodukten (CO, CO2, CO3). Their highest efficiency is 18-20%ig. The promotion, supply and application are expensive. - the radioactive materials: I am to stress the fact that one wins, produces the energy or does not destroy can! Only over the aboveground and energy hidden in the earth we possess. For example I would like to bring the uranium forward (plutonium): First the geological folder ions, test drillings and s. w. will precede the adjustments. The uranium of itself isotope and strahlengefaerliches material is. After its excavation we must refine - and excite for its consumption. The excitation means that we still give several energy in addition. This process is very expensive. Nature SCN consists of the isotopes uranium 235 and uranium 238. Uranium, with which the percentage fissile uranium 235 over the natural content of 0,72% outside is increased, is called enriched uranium. The enrichment become diffusion -, gas centrifuges or nozzle processes angewandt.In a light-water reactor on approximately 3.5 enriched uranium is used as fuel. In addition production and dressing of the uranium ore, uranium enriching, production of the fuel elements, their employment belong in a reactor, the reprocessing, the reenrichment of this uranium for the use in new fuel elements as well as the fuel action and entgueltige storage of the radioactive wastes. Thus do we that is expendable to it, see how enormous quantity of energy must we use, - and probably this energy conversion costs how many billion DM? The cultivation and the Inbetriebshalten of a nuclear power station is outside properly expensive-loud TV report amounts to the building of an exciter plant 6-8 billion DM, where the excitation of 3000 tons of materials 10 billion DM cost. The working reliability in the atomic power plant, where controlling the chain reaction proves as questionable. The messages have us over the Katasrophe of the Tschernobil: The radioactive radiation dose in Munich (measured in Bequerel per kilogram for iodine 131) is expresses differently: Front runners are creating surfaces, at the lowest level lie at present the drinking water. Here the newest average values (to the comparison: the limit value for milk was specified with 500 Bequerel). Lawn on public green areas: up to 7000 Becquerel. Clear mud (drying) from drains: 1910. Rain water: 644. Children's playgrounds: 60 to 450. Resident of Munich lakes: 28 to 50, Isar: 23. Groundwater: 0,2 to 0,43.Muenchner drinking water: 0,05 to 0,2. The complete body radiation is at present about 25 micro Roentgen per second. It amounts to the 2,5 subject of the standard load. Vegetable in yard: 41000. Petresilie: 11000 (in Passau: 14200). (AZ of 9. 5. 1986). AZ informed 1986 further on 9 May: In all vegetable samples cesium 137 values of more than 100 Becqerel was found. In Hessen: the middle cesium load 2500, in Marburg was measured 5000, sports sites 25000 Becquerel. On the area of a reactor in the north Rhine westfaelischen Hamm the radiation dose was even between 25000 and 50000 Becquerel. On more as 30000 additional cancer-dead in the Federal Republic than consequence of the reactor misfortune in Tschernobil that counts of Bremen atomic physicists Jens Scheer.. . Instead of atomic power plants, which poisons us from iodine 131, cesium 137, strontium 90, plutonium and s. w. star awls, we must find another energy conversion, which is not poisoned the environment. As the new possibility I submit my invention to you. - air: The utilization of the wind depends on the weather, then the enterprise and working reliability of a wind power station are unvorsehbar rapsodisch. The structure of such a plant is very expensive, which particularly loads the work of a possible net senselessly. Those Hamburg power stations let set up such a experimental mechanism for 100 million DM (the height is directly with Cologne cathedral, the rotor blades is 18 tons heavily, the concrete foundation reaches the depth of 18 meters and s. w.). - the natural gas: Refining as well as the pipe installation load financially very the enterprise. The natural gas means constant fire and danger of explosion. Its verbrennungsprodukten work as general high-poisonous environmental pollution factors (beside the oil), which for ever larger SMOG - problem and Baumsterbern are generally responsible. - the oil: The production, Hinleitung nuetzbahren decay products is very expensive - similarly as with the natural gas -. Verbrennungsprodukten like Carbon monoxide, carbon dioxide are high poisonous and generally work, just as of the natural gas. Further the reserves of our earth - according to geological measurements - keep approx. still 30 years long with the today's promotion intensity. Still two remarks about "natural gas - oil": 1. Own data for environmental pollution: In the Federal Republic of Germany the Luftunreinigung (SMOG) reached the uncertainty phase in the winter 1984/85 regionally, where operating and restrictions of traffic had to be introduced. The magazine "General German Automobile Association engine world" reports (the expenditure from December 1984) that in the federal territory sulphur dioxide (SO2) gets annually 3.0 millions dirty t, 3.1 millions t Stickdioxy (NOx), 1.6 millions t. hydrocarbon (CH), and 8.2 millions t.Kohlenmonoxyd (CO) air, if the motor vehicles with a max. Speed of 80-100 km/h drive. The following table (from the same expenditure) informs about the distribution of the "manufacturers": EMI21.1 In the Federal Republic of Germany, Switzerland, Austria is 53% of the forest total area poisoned and on death condemned, and the process constantly spreads. Dirty air attacks also the works of humans. (above all the monument protection is met). Our health is also endangered. (there the cause of 80% the Krebskrankungen, as well as of increase reduction of humans is). According to the information of the city Munich 545246 cars are in the city. Accepted that the daily Bensinverbrauch is on the average 1 l (1.30 DM/l), amounts to the sum total about 708820 DM per day, there is called 258,719,300, - DM per year. The schrechliche balance: however the inhabitants of Munich pay annually 258.7 millions DM around their air poison too can if it however their to cars with the invention "the nucleon drive by water" equip, save them the money and also air remain pure. A double gain. 2. The refer to-referring to its on natural gas - and erdoelquellen as well as their overload uncertain and the economy unhealthy makes the energy balance of the world (see the Wirtschaftskriese our time). - the water: In the power stations its mass (kinetic energy) is used. The tremendously large mechanisms (like dams, storage reservoirs) do not only mean powerful investment, but occupy also valuable ansenliche culture landscape and at all destroy the ecological unit of the environment. The efficiency of the power stations reached at the most 40%, further improvement on this way is not to be expected. This fact directs our attention on the tifgreifende possibility in the water, "nucleon energy" mentioned. This method can be represented and proven with the best by the example of the explosion engines. Task: The peopleness and environment in principle to protect, to upright-hold needs one such a output subject and method, where the structure and the Inbetriebhalten are cheap, high economic, where the by-product is ungefaerlich and pollution free, whereby the Energiekriese is to be solved. Solution: This task is solved erfindungsgemaessig by the fact that the invention the nucleon drive uses the water by water not as mass, but the energy stored in it mechanical work to win. That is called the "nucleon energy" of the water (steam), from the connection like an explosion of the components (H, O) resulting the dynamic strength as well as those between them freely becoming warmth is made useful. The dynamic strength moved the mechanism, those freely becoming warmth carries the energy enriching out of the h and o-atoms. It is well-known that the heat of combustion of the hydrogen is 2400 DEG C, itself the dynamic strength converting into mechanical work has an efficiency (eta) of the 95%. It is the simplest and to mostly justified to illustrate the new transfer of energy with the enterprise of the explosion engines (gas turbines). Considered that 1 mol of gas-like subject - which always 6. , its volume contains 10 molecules with 25 DEG C and with the pressure of 1 RK. 24.5 DM (24500 cm) it amounts to further that 1 cm of the water with 1 RK. and is the volume of the explosion engines generally 1000-2000 cm results in 1700 cm gas (steam), can I prove that the preheating container and the nucleon container occupy only small place. (thus leich are applicable). - it is the simplest and to mostly justified, the new transfer of energy by the enterprise of the Expolsionsmotoren (gas turbines) to ververanscheulichen. The nucleon drive by water functions without driving off consumption, however by energy switching. It splits the water on its structure components, excites the atoms and reconnects finally these in the cylinders. The explosion energy is used part as mechanical work. The heat component of the explosion energy is used to energy enriching and partial splitting of the water in the preheating container. From enriching the Hydroxoniumion (H3O) results. The enriched water vapour will become in the nucleon container further-moved, then into the reservoir led, finally the split and enriched components in the cylinders water reconnects. - in the cylinders with Hydroxoniumionen enriched water (steam) exploded, naehmlich that freely becoming hydrogen - due to the ignition spark explodes. (entzuendungstemperatur: 560 DEG C) and this explosion energy splits and blows up contents of the cylinders. When compressing (2nd clock) the cylinder temperature is 400 DEG C. . . 500 DEG C, thus them remains under the explosion limit. - into the cylinder with the explosion developing warmth (cca 2400-3000 DEG C) is taken up by the cooling water and passed on the preheating container, where it is used as excitation energy. Therefore it is reached that their atomicresounds the electrons of the hydrogen atoms to the "K" belonging "1 S" electron trajectory abandoned and on one with larger quantity number jumps over; with it also the energy stop of these atoms enriches itself. At the same time they form for Hydroxoniumion with the water. - in the nucleon container the atoms and/or molecules due to the river and the heat energy by the exhaust gas are ionized. Thus "the Nukeonantrieb by water" uses the heat energy for the further sequential Inbetriebshaltung, corresponding in the cylinders, which energy - according to the state of the art - is lost. - steam (gas), enriched with energy, arrived into the reservoir and from here he follows the usual way of the impulse material. In the reservoir as much hydrogen accumulates itself, which is sufficient for the approach. - Beruechsichtigt that 1 mol of gas-like subject - which always - - 6. 10 molecules contains, whose volume amounts to with 25 DEG C and pressure of 1 RK 24.5 DM (24500 cm), further that 1 cm of the water results in in the case of 1 RK 1700 cm gas (steam) and the volume of the explosion engines generally 1000-2000 cm is, can I prove the fact that the preheating container and the nucleon container occupy thus only small place (is easily applicable). In accordance with the calculations of the examples NR. 1 and NR. the quantity of the water, which is with that 1/3 (0,35%) of the Bensins or diesel oil equal, contains 2 the same energiequantum. That is, one must grant only the 1/3 of the cylinder volume for the Inbetriebhalten. That proves also that with the volume of only unite a reservoir DM is sufficient the cold engine to heat, (during the Reserwoir on the new accumulates itself) According to the data of BOSCH:in 2 - for taktigem engine with a pressure of 15-25 RKS 2000-2800 DEG C of it develop take to cooling water and exhaust gas 65% on (-) 1520-2128 DEG Cin 4 - taktigem petrol - engine with a pressure of 40-50 RKS ensteht 2000-3000 DEG Cdavon take cooling water and exhaust gas 66% on (-) 1520-2280 DEG C the heat of combustion of the hydrogen 2400 DEG Cdavon take cooling water and exhaust gas 66% on (+/) 1824 DEG C From 1824 DEG C the operating temperature of the cylinders is to take cca 125 DEG off C it is to us thus cca 1800 DEG C at the disposal, which the invention "the nucleon enterprise uses by water" for exciting. Better utilization to reach, preheating containers made of bronze are built, since its waermeleitungskoeffizient lambda = 320 is. (of the steel and cast iron 50 is alike.) According to the Sankey - diagram is divided the fuel energy with petrol - engines as follows: Exhaust gases: 36%, cooling water: 33%, friction: 3%, radiation: 7% duty: 24%. From the entire fuel energy: 100%, which is: EMI25.1 According to the same diagram the entire hydrogen energy is divided as follows: EMI26.1 The invention "the nucleon enterprise by water" makes the "loss" usable by the exhaust gas and cooling water, then is the energy utilization: 90% 1,474,236 kJ/h, 111,600 kJ/kg. The possibility cca of the 90%-igen energy utilization I prove by means of heat supply - the law of Fourier as follows: The heat energy, which is to be handed over at flat wall by thermal conduction: EMI26.2 where lambda = waermeleitungskoeffizient A = wall surface DELTA t = temperature difference is rho = wall density t = time. The amount of heat, which is to be handed over at tube wall by thermal conduction: EMI26.3 where l = tube length Dk = ausserer diameter of the tube railways = internal diameter of the tube Specially a loss calculation is unnecessarily, there this the Sankey - diagram made. The possibly arising smaller losses compensated of in the cylinders energy increase resulting from the compression in any case as follows: Qv = m. Cv. 1 degree of Qp = m Cp 1 degree - with higher warming the work EMI27.1 Cp = specific warmth with constant volumes Cv = specific warmth with constant Druk EMI27.2 (1 kcal = 427 kpm = 4187 Nm = 4187 J) converting joule (J): Achievement: 1 W = 1 J /s 1 J = 1 Nm 1 suppl. = 10 J Q = I. R. t - Q = 0,86. I. R. t the amount of heat: P = 0,86. I. R kcal/h a 1 KW/H = 3,6. 10 joules of EMI27.3 (1 ev = 1,602. 10 joules) thus the compression pressure: W = 37.8 kpm = 370 Nm = 370 J, the kinetic energy: Ek EMI27.4 (T = absolutely temperature: -273 DEG C) EMI27.5 the emphasis moment of inertia of the body: EMI27.6 If the rotation axle of the body - weight emphasis through goes, and, then the EMI27.7 kinetic energy we are to add its speed of v to rotationsenergie: E = EM + Ef EMI28.1 the work with rotation: W = F. s s = r. alpha (J) F. r = M W = M. alpha (mass. Angular speed) achievement (with rotation): EMI28.2 Attainable advantages: The advantages obtained with the invention consist in particular of the fact that some energy mediator. It splits the water on its structure components, excites the atoms and reconnects with explosion. The nucleon drive by water functions without driving off consumption. - the invention as the most favorable and general energy source is suitable to set all kinds of explosion engines (turbines, jet engines) in enterprise directly with which mechanism it functions. - the invention into the machines by small change, already existing, easily to insert is. - the nucleon drive by water as the guenstigte and general energy source makes the gebraeulichen power stations redundant, like (present) thermal power stations, hydro-electric power plants, wind power stations, nuclear power stations, sun elements. - the nucleon drive by water saves the environment. Remark examples: 1.a./ for the diesel engine were so far calculated: PE = 51 KW B = 13.2 kg/h fuel consumption = 259 g/kW specific fuel consumption Hu = 42000 kJ/kg the heat value for Diesel fuel For the determination of the utilizable efficiency those must be converted value to same units, e.g. becomes with PE = 51 KW = 51 kJ/s. 3600 s/h = 183,600 kJ/h EMI29.1 or with a 1 KW/H = 3600 kJ EMI29.2 33% of the available heat energy of the fuel are thus converted into usable mechanical energy, 67% go intending purpose that lost, mainly as calorific losses. b. We know already that with the H - molecule is equal to molecule speed with the quotient of the protons - and electron mass - 1840 m/s. The H - Molecule is four times faster than the O - molecule, and the O - molecule is H - molecule eight times more with difficulty than there. Thus molecules the cylinders will fill in. V = 200 cm: 7/8 H - Molecules and 1/8 O - molecules, thus: 175 cm h molecules 25 cm o molecules Hu = 119,708 kJ/kg PE = 51 KW (hydrogen density rho = 0.0898 g. cm) t = 47 (in seconds) B = V. rho. 3600/t BH = with hydrogen BO = with oxygen EMI30.1 EMI30.3 EMI30.4 EMI30.5 EMI30.6 EMI30.7 EMI30.8 EMI30.9 EMI30.10 EMI30.11 EMI30.11 Fuel consumption with diesel engine of diesel oil: 13,2 kg/h of the water (H2O): 3,94 kg/h (29,84%) 2. Gas pressure and piston force: p = pressure in N/cm Pmax = burn maximum pressure in N/cm pi = medium internal (more induced) piston pressure in N/cm Peff = medium more usable (more effectively) piston pressure in N/cm PC = compression pressure in N/cm Pa = intake pressure in N/cm A = piston surface in cm D = piston diameter in cm F = piston force in N mu m = mechanical efficiency 1 bar = 10 N/cm EMI31.1 A.. Pmax = 42,000 kJ/kg = 42,000 J/g = 42,200 Nm = 420 /cm D = 85 mm EMI31.2 EMI31.4 EMI31.5 EMI31.6 EMI31.7 EMI31.7 Peff = mu m. p - with petrol - engine mu m = 0.8 Peff = 0,8. 420 N/cm = 336 N/cm = 33.6 bar b. Hydrogen (steam): Pmax = 1200 N/cm = 120,000 J/g = 120,000 Nm = 120 0 N/cm = 120 = 120 bar D = 85 mm A = 56.75 cm Fmax = A. Pmax = 56.75 cm. 1200 N/cm = 68,100 n EMI31.8 Burn maximum pressure: Petrol - engine: Pmax = 30 bar. . . 60 bar Diesel - engine: Pmax = 65 bar. . . 90 bar Normal verbrennungsgeschwindigkeit: Petrol - engine: 10 m/s. . . 25 m/s Top burn: Petrol - engine: 100 m/s. . . 300 m/s Diesels - engine: Normal one of gate-controlled delay time - time about 0.001 s Verbrennungsgeschwindigkeit: Hydrogen:H - molecule speed of 1840 m/sO - molecule speed - 460 m/s burn speed of 1380 m/s We can decrease the dinamischen strength with explosion with the space propagation or with the amount of fuel: For Fmax = 23,835 N we need 1 g, Fmax = 23 from Bensin,835 N need we from hydrogen 0.35 g. Now we experienced that for same large F strength only 1/3 H necessarily and the H - verbrennungsgeschwindigkeit becomes: EMI32.1 decrease. Fmax = 23,835 N = 42 bar, and the verbrennungsgeschwindigkeit up to 60 bar is permitted. 3. Specific heat value: A. gasoline: Hu = specific heat value in kJ/kg m = mass in kg V = volume in DM Q = m. Hu EMI32.2 rho = density in kg.dm V = 2.7 l regular grade fuel Hu = 42,500 kJ/kg rho = 0.74 kg/dm Q =? Q = V. rho. Hu = 2.7 DM. 0,74 kg/dm. 42 -500 kJ/kg Q = 84,915 kJ = 84.9 MJ APPROX 85 MJ EMI33.1 b.. hydrogen (steam): V = 2.7 l water - 0.3375 l oxygen + 2.3625 l hydrogen rho H = 0.09 kg/dm rho O = 1.43 kg/dm Hu = 120,000 kJ/kg Q = V. rho. Hu = 2.3625 DM. 0,0 9 kg/dm. 120,000 kJ/kg Q = 25,515 kJ EMI33.2 In addition the hydrogen (Q = 85 MJ) energy quantity to reach, must we can increase that its seal 3,32-mal. 0.212 kg. 3,32 = 0.707 kg - seal becomes: 0,09. . . 0,3 kg/dm Q = V. rho. Hu Q = 2.3625 DM. 0,3 kg/dm. 120000 kJ/kg = 85050 kJ APPROX 85 MJ thus with gasoline: EMI33.3 Hydrogen: EMI33.4 For hydrogen production we - according to Sankey diagram - become the being lost 66% energy use EMI33.5 85050 kJ. 66.100 = 56133 kJ 85050 kJ-56133 kJ = 28917 kJ 1kW = 10 J = 1 MJ 28917 kJ = 2.8 MJ = 2.8 KW, and this energy quantity can we from the Dinamo easily reach. 4. Efficiency: According to the Sankey Diagramm:Nutzarbeit: 24%Abgase: 36% cooling water: 33%Strahlung: 7% The verlohrende energy: 76% the invention: The nucleon drive by water will use the o. g. verlohrende energy quantity to 80%-ig: Pw = 120,000 kJ/kg Peff = 28,800 kJ/kg = 24% + 7% radiation = 31% (not usably 7% radiation: 8400 kJ/kg) Pf = Pw-Peff = 120,000 kJ/kg-28 800 kJ/kg = 91 -200 kJ/kg = 91,200 kJ/kg-8 400 kJ/kg = 82,800 k J/kg EMI34.1 like that is PEFF = Peff + Pfn = 28,800 kJ/kg + 66,240 kJ/kg = 95040 kJ/kg EMI34.2 Designs for remark possibilities of the Nuleonantrieb by water Fig. 1. Four-cycle - petrol procedure Fig. 2. Preheating container Fig. 3. Nucleon container Fig. 4. Reservoairbehaelter Fig. 5. Sankey - diagram DATA supplied from the esp@cenet DATA cousin - Worldwide



Igénypontok DE3630345 Principal claim generic term 1. The invention "the nucleon drive by water" uses the simplest element of our earth - the water - as an energy mediator. It splits the water on its structure components, excites the atoms and reconnects finally these in cylinders. The explosion energy is partly used as mechanical work. The heat component of the o. g. energy is used for the energy enriching and partial splitting of the water in the preheating container. From enriching the Hydroxoniumion (H3O results more).Der water vapour enriched in the nucleon container far-moved, then into the reservoir led, finally will become the split and enriched components in the cylinders water reconnects. The nucleon drive by water functions without driving off consumption, however by energy switching. Characteristic part: By the fact characterized that the water participates only as an energy mediator during the process and not when driving off, since the applied quantity of water is equal to with the quantity of water, which forms as final product. By the fact characterized that the water arrives for the first time from the driving off container into the preheating container. Here the heat energy use-using that freely becoming in the cylinders water is enriched through to energy-supply, the developing H (proton) - because of its hydration energy - connects itself very strongly with that to water molecules. It results in Hydroxoniumion (H3O). The before-warmed up, enriched water vapour comes from here into the nucleon container, where the further excitation is reached by river. The atoms excited here, ions (nucleons) arrive by the reservoir into the cylinders, where their reconnection involves an explosion, during water vapour develop-developing those to explosion energy are converted into mechanical work, the developing warmth at preheating, excitation are useful. Thus characterized that with Hydroxoniumionen range RTS water explodes here, i.e. that freely becoming hydrogen - due to the ignition spark explodes (entzuendungstemperatur: 560 DEG C) and this explosion energy splits and blows up contents of the cylinders. When compressing (2nd clock) the cylinder temperature is 400 DEG C. . . 500 DEG C, thus them remains under the explosion limit. By the fact characterized that the nucleon drive has by water the following characteristics: - the warmth developing in the cylinders with the explosion (cca. 2400-3000 DEG C) is taken up by the cooling water and passed on the preheating container, where it reached as excitation energy used according to will-will that that the electrons of the hydrogen atoms of their jump over belonging "1 S" electron trajectory to the "K" atomic bowl abandoned and on one with larger quantity number; with it also the energy content of these atoms enriches itself. At the same time they form for Hydroxoniumionen with the water. - in the nucleon container the atoms and/or molecules are ionized due to the river. The ionization needs only a small quantity of the river, since the heat energy used in the preheating container already enriched the water. Thus the nucleon drive by water uses the heat energy for the further sequential Inbetriebshaltung, developed in the cylinders, which energy - according to the conditions the technology - is lost. - steam (gas), enriched with energy, arrived into the reservoir and from here he follows the usual way of the Treibstoffes.Im reservoir accumulates himself as much hydrogen, which is sufficient for the approach. Generic term of the unteranspruchs: 2. The nucleon drive by water according to requirement 1. Characteristic part of the unteranspruchs: - by the fact characterized that the nucleon drive is suitable by water as the most favorable and general energy source all kinds of explosion engines in enterprise to set, directly with which mechanism it functions. - by it characterized that the nucleon drive is suitable as the most favorable and general energy source by water, turbines, to put jet engines into operation. - by it characterized that the nucleon drive is suitable as the most favorable and general energy source by water, boiler, (bloom) furnaces to put huts into operation. - by the fact characterized that the nucleon drive makes the common power stations by water as the most favorable and general energy source such as thermal power stations of hydro-electric power plants of wind power stations of nuclear power stations of sun elements redundantly. - by the fact characterized that the nucleon drive makes possible by water as the most favorable and general energy source to increase the number of revolutions and/or the speed of large extents. - by the fact characterized that the nucleon drive by water made possible, if an final system is developed, to make further energy quantity useful. In the final system the refill of the water is nearly unnecessary. - by the fact characterized that the nucleon drive is to be inserted by water into the machines already existing by small change, easily.
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Postby chemelec » Fri Apr 07, 2006 6:06 pm

If you Email Me, the Word "ELECTRONIC" MUST appear in the Subject Line.

My NEW Website is:
http://chemelec.com
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Similar system

Postby johninct2006 » Thu Apr 20, 2006 9:27 am

Hello,

Let me say first it is fantasic to have a board like this for
all to converse and discuss together, soo many peoples ideas.

I've been reading many topics here, but this thread has really got
me very interested in creating H2 for a car or an engine/generator
for home use.

I found a link for a company that is building a similar system
to the one in this thread. Many thanks to Alaska and everyone
for us to get this far so fast.

Here's the link:



They are using Aluminum/Magnesium and H2o in their system
and the reuse of materials, looks along the same lines as this
thread's thoughts.

See the drawing at the bottom of the page.

Cheers,
John
I didn't fail, I just found many ways
that something doesn't work.
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Postby AlaskaStar » Sat Apr 29, 2006 12:44 am

try looking up GM's "HY-WIRE" or "Billion Dollar Bet" car. it is based on fuel cells yes, and likewise it looks nothing like an ordinary drivetrain. On CBS 60 Minutes, they reported on it. I have a video copy that I recorded from TV. I am more than certain that one could easily look up the HY-WIRE on the 60 Minutes web site.

so much to do...so little time....

the fuel cell in it's current state is the single most inefficient "novelty" type technology today IN IT'S CURRENT FORM. the problem is in the surface area, or rather LACK THEREOF.

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Postby delta-t » Sun Apr 30, 2006 11:20 am

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Postby AlaskaStar » Sun Apr 30, 2006 12:56 pm

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download

Postby aquilarubra » Fri May 05, 2006 1:47 pm

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Postby AlaskaStar » Tue May 16, 2006 1:34 pm

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Postby aquilarubra » Mon May 22, 2006 9:30 am

I found an interesting study.

A Study on Practical Production of Hydrogen Through Efficient Electrolysis:
http://www.nmas.org/nmjas_reuel.html

This experiment's purpose was to see which of the many variables of electrolysis are significant factors to electrical efficiency and under what conditions electrolysis is most efficient. Hydrogen gas was collected off the cathode and measured in moles. By knowing the specific energy per mass ratio of hydrogen and dividing it by the total energy input into the experiment through electricity, electrical efficiency was found. The driving factors of electrolysis were found to be pressure and salt concentration. The optimum conditions for efficient electrolysis are a salt concentration of 0.0672 molar, ambient pressure of 1 x 105 Pascals, and a water temperature of 295 Kelvin. At this point the predicted efficiency is 92%, which means that 92% of the energy inputted into electrolysis can be stored by the hydrogen produced. Some further studies on this question would include: what happens at higher salt concentrations and could this information be applied to a small garage-sized device that could produce cheap hydrogen through Photovoltaic solar panels?
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Postby aquilarubra » Mon May 22, 2006 10:36 am

Another interesting experiment. It seems close to Kanarev's discoveries.
High V, hi frequency pulsed DC => plasma electrolysis and 20-100 times overunity. Kanarev, with a Joe cell similar design, reports OU by 1000-4000 times.

http://www.freeenergynews.com/Directory ... dnerWatts/
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Postby aquilarubra » Tue May 23, 2006 11:19 am

I could finally read the whole thread. Wow!!
An interesting article about an electrolysis cell used as a capacitor:
http://home.earthlink.net/~lenyr/varelec.htm
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Re: Horvath Patents

Postby russ » Wed May 31, 2006 9:41 pm

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Postby GreenEggs » Thu Jun 01, 2006 8:14 am

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Alaska star, I thought you might find this interesting.

Postby binxalot » Fri Jun 02, 2006 3:13 pm

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