Means of measuring hydrogen levels

[GreenElectron]

[kevinsatterfield]

[GreenElectron]

[Steve-tee]

[chemelec]

The Size of Bubbles Varies.

Use a Smaller Bottle or a Test Tube.
Better Yet, use a Graduated Cylinder as used in Chemistry.

[drewsky]

Hi everyone

I'm trying to find a way to measure gas production electronicaly in real time. I've priced gas flow sensors (the ones that work with a small impeller and a frequancy counter) but the ones that I have found are all very expensive, around $700 Aus. So i'm trying to think of some where to scavange an old one. Cars have an air flow meter, but way to big and I don't think using a hot wire with hydrogen is good idea

Does any one know of any cars engines or any other machines that use a small gas flow sensor that I might be able scavange?

I've been contemplating building my own.
Maybe and it is a big maybe,
a small impeller from a fish tank pump
a machined block of plastic and some sort of photo diode or light dependant resisitor hooked up to a frequancy counter.
Mmmm think it would be much easier to scavange one

[Steve-tee]

Hi Drewsky,

I wonder if another approach might work. The idea I am considering, does not have moving, or heated parts.
Instead, it uses ultrasonics. There would be an ultrasonic sender and receiver inside the pipeline. These would be side by side, and the 40Khz signal would strike a target inside the same pipe. When gas is flowing towards the transducers, there should be a phase shift in the returned signal. Since the signal is always present, the relative phase shift can be nulled out, and used to detect the flow of gas in either direction. As the gas flow becomes faster, the phase shift would become greater.
One can measure the phase shift and display it on either a digital or analogue meter.

This idea is only theoretical, but I have found in early experiments that I can use this method to detect movements as small as 100 microns.

It occurs to me that the transducers could be facing each other, from two points in a portion of the pipe line. Gas flow will cause a 'doppler' effect, thereby inducing the desired phase shift.


I wish to measure gas production rates also, so I hope to set this experiment up in the near future.




Best wishes,
Steve-tee

[GreenElectron]

been busy lately on some electrolysis experiments on which I'll post a new thread. Good interesting simple and hitech ways to measure hydrogen. The liter bottle methods seems simpler and more or less gives us a ballpark figures for comparisions. For small emissions perhaps a standard for test tube or small bottle of some standard cc and scaling the results to liter measurements. Thanks for all your response to this thread for sharing new things and ideas.

[AlaskaStar]

a 1992 Plymouth Colt (NOT VISTA) with a 1.5 Liter 12 valve SOHC Port Injected (there is a carbureted one) that uses a TIMING BELT (not a chain, there's one of these too) uses a SONIC Mass Air Flow meter. it has 2 microphones at each side of a square tube, there is also a honey-comb mesh at both ends to SMOOTH out the turbulence. point is: it listens to the air rushing through, even if it is slow and small amounts.

here is the make and model again for finding one, and getting the circuits for tweaking:

YEAR: 1992
Make: Plymouth
Model: Colt (NOT the VISTA)
Engine size: 1.5, SOHC, Belt driven cam, Port injected
Engine Vin: Code A=1.5 export, Code Q=1.5 Import (from the USA)

these were made in mexico.

AlaskaStar

[Steve-tee]

The idea of a 'bucket fountain' comes to mind just now.
In the city near here, we have a rather unusual fountain. Water pours into the top of it, where an oddly shaped bucket fills with water.
Eventually, the weight of the water causes the bucket to tip on its hinges.
The water is then added to the contents of a bigger bucket below. This process is repeated all the way to the fountain's base, the buckets getting bigger and bigger on the way down.
The whole thing makes for an entertaining display. Really, honest

I figure that this method could be applied to gas production rate measurement. The 'bucket' is held upside down in the bubbler. Gas enters it, and eventually causes it to tip up and discharge its contents as a bigger bubble.
The 'bucket' would be quite small, so the rate could be determined fairly quickly. Bucket flips could be counted automatically, to evaluate production rates.

I like the wonderful simplicity of the litre bottle test, but I am fundamentally lazy, and really prefer having a machine do the work for me .

Best wishes,
Steve-tee.

[drewsky]

[Steve-tee]

Howdy Drewski,

It looks like we are creating a workable idea here .
As each of us makes a suggestion, the other sees variations that may lead to a simple answer.

One occurs to me right now, and it's based on your suggestion of a speedometer for boats.
What if we put a small anemometer in the bubble stream?

Normally, an anemometer is placed horizontally - to measure wind speed.
If we had a small one that was operating on a vertical axis instead, the bubbles would become the prime mover for it.
Using this method, it should be possible for the device to register even tiny gas production rates, as the bubbles will collect in the cups of the rotor.
The bearing for this device can be simple too. Just a stainless steel wire passing through a hole in a plastic block. The plastic block would have 4 to 6 plastic spoons arranged around the periphery.
Bubbles would be directed to it, by careful placement of the gas feed tube.
By using a fairly small diameter at the outlet of the feed tube, the bubbles would be smaller, and would be more inclined to hit the spoons, instead of bypassing them.
An optical device could then be set up to count the turns of the 'water wheel' - - errrr 'bubble wheel'
This could lead to the invention of 'bubble memory'

Hmmm, looks like a project for my machine shop


Best wishes,

Steve.

[drewsky]

[Jay]

[drewsky]

Sorry bad link

Couldn't find it on a google search might have to do it the hard way.

The site is.

www.rsaustralia.com
follow the links:
Products
Automation
control products-flow & level
flow transducers
liquid flow sensors
compact flow sensor