AntDavison

[adam666]

nice work Ant!

hadnt actually looked right into ur project earlier, a nice design!

did ya mount the kettle in a vehicle? with that sort of surface area surely it would make a large amount of h2!?

again, nice work!!

cheers
Adam

[thrival]

Ant:

I'm thinking for myself and others who might want to try duplicating
your method. For me, one and two plates would be the most useful.
One plate/coil in separate compartments, or two plates in one
compartment. It keeps things simple and standardized.

How difficult is shimstock to bend? Ideally I'd like to start with 1/2"
pvc hot 'n cold water-pipe for the core, and 4" (ID) pvc pipe as a
container. I think PVC pipe goes up to 6" ID and of course larger,
but I'll bet 4" - 6" are the most common and convenient sizes that
members of this board will have access to and want to use. I think
1 mm an ideal gap. What do you think is a good number given the
variation in shimstock thicknesses and ability to flex, without gaps
becoming too wide or too tight to work? I've got 40 mesh SS screen on hand.

The other thing, what are your pegs used to penetrate the holes and
position the plate/gaps? I was thinking a single roll coil could use thin rod/
stout SS wire, but two plates would short out so maybe something thin,
stiff but dielectric (I have no idea what.)

Could you maybe generate the scroll and hole patterns/measurements for
4" & 6" dia? A person could hack off inside or outer edges to accomodate
different sized cores or ID pipe.

[thrival]

(the 1/2" waterpipe measures 5/8" O.D.)

[AntDavison]

farside161 - will try and post some diagrams and compenent numbers next week

adam666 - not yet, only exploding balloon, still a little scared, need to make a bubbler next, i also want to try connecting the pvm to a motorcycle ht coil with two hv outputs ... you may have seen a paper floating around for 2 or 3 years by a guy in coromandel saying he did that successfully (with a harley-davidson coil) . quite a few distributorless ignotion cars also have that set up, as does my 1966 vw (an aftermarket vw kit i paid us$180/kiwi$700 for when our $$$ was weak, now importable for kiwi$300, its got two dual coils)

thrival - padded out my project pages a little which should answer some questions for you

try bending the leaves of a feeler gauge to get an idea of stainless flexibility.
0.5mm/20thou" (the thinnest size you can get in a standard sheet (2400mmx1200mm / 10'x5' / 120" x 60" ) was too difficult to bend around a 25mm/1" pipe, 0.35mm/14-15thou" could be good and a bit stiffer

1mm gap is too tight a tolerance for a two+ plate design, but might work for a one plate .... a one plate with that gap would be very long, so you need to be able to source bulk shim from a 100yard roll

single plates present more of a mounting problem as i use the electrode posts to support the whole deel, but you could add more 'feet"/posts along the outer part opf the spiral

multiple plates in parallel might be easier

another alternative as a spacer would be weedeater/fat-fishing nylon wire
but it will be harder to get neater, because accurate positioning of the mounting holes allows no other alternative than a nice curved spiral with a very constant gap ... those holes must be accurate though ... when i made my plastic mockup, i just hand drilled the holes on a inkjet-printed and sprayglued template, and i could see where i wasnt careful enough when i rolled the mock-up up

the pegs are 6.25mm/.25" engineering plastic rods, easily obtainable
(damn you americans with your fractions and imperial measurements )

ll do you a run as soon as my computer is free in about 10min

did the last two pictures in my spiral math page help you understand the script (posted last night)

ant

[AntDavison]

id = 5/8" * 25.4 = 15.875mm =so use= 16mm
od = 4" * 25.4 = 101.6mm =so use= 102mm
plates = 1
spacing = 2mm
4 holes per turn
turns = 21.5
'theoretical' plate length = 3985.37mm = 156.904"
mounting hole locations in mm (divide by 25.4 for inches)
0.0 79.7195 158.654 236.802 314.165
390.743 466.536 541.543 615.764 689.202
761.852 833.712 904.792 975.093 1044.6
1113.32 1181.26 1248.42 1314.78 1380.36
1445.16 1509.19 1572.39 1634.85 1696.51
1757.36 1817.46 1876.76 1935.26 1993.01
2049.94 2106.09 2161.49 2216.06 2269.86
2322.91 2375.11 2426.56 2477.24 2527.09
2576.19 2624.51 2672.0 2718.75 2764.7
2809.79 2854.19 2897.84 2940.7 2982.65
3023.84 3064.29 3103.98 3142.93 3181.03
3218.27 3254.76 3290.51 3325.5 3359.74
3393.08 3425.62 3457.41 3488.45 3518.75
3548.27 3576.86 3604.7 3631.79 3658.14
3683.73 3708.49 3732.38 3755.52 3777.91
3799.56 3820.45 3840.45 3859.64 3878.08
3895.77 3912.71 3928.91 3944.15 3958.64
3972.38 3985.37

==============================

id = 5/8" * 25.4 = 15.875mm =so use= 16mm
od = 4" * 25.4 = 101.6mm =so use= 102mm
plates = 2
spacing = 2mm
4 holes per turn
turns = 10.75
'theoretical' plate length = 1993.15mm = 78.4705"
mounting hole locations in mm (divide by 25.4 for inches)

0.0 79.3315 157.092 233.283 307.902
380.951 452.429 522.337 590.674 657.44
722.637 786.258 848.314 908.798 967.71
1025.06 1080.82 1135.03 1187.66 1238.72
1288.21 1336.13 1382.48 1427.26 1470.46
1512.1 1552.18 1590.67 1627.59 1662.96
1696.74 1728.95 1759.6 1788.69 1816.18
1842.12 1866.5 1889.29 1910.52 1930.18
1948.28 1964.79 1979.75 1993.15


=========================


id = 5/8" * 25.4 = 15.875mm =so use= 16mm
od = 6" * 25.4 = 152.4mm =so use= 152mm
plates = 2
spacing = 2mm
4 holes per turn
turns = 17
'theoretical' plate length = 4486.93mm = 176.651"
mounting hole locations in mm (divide by 25.4 for inches)
0.0 118.599 235.628 351.085 464.972
577.289 688.036 797.207 904.815 1010.84
1115.31 1218.2 1319.52 1419.28 1517.47
1614.07 1709.1 1802.58 1894.47 1984.79
2073.55 2160.75 2246.35 2330.4 2412.88
2493.77 2573.1 2650.87 2727.06 2801.74
2874.73 2946.21 3016.16 3084.45 3151.24
3216.45 3280.04 3342.12 3402.6 3461.49
3518.87 3574.63 3628.81 3681.49 3732.51
3781.99 3829.98 3876.26 3921.05 3964.31
4005.89 4045.97 4084.5 4121.38 4156.76
4190.56 4222.74 4253.42 4282.49 4309.97
4335.95 4360.29 4383.07 4404.36 4423.97
4442.06 4458.64 4473.53 4486.93


=============

dont forget to factor in the combined height of two opposing plate retaining nuts

[thrival]

Ant:

Many thanks for this.

[kevinsatterfield]

[kevinsatterfield]

[AntDavison]

[kansashonda]

[kansashonda]

Hey ant I am only posting this to put it back at the top. Where it belongs. This design and the sherman anderson design are the two that I am most enterested in. How is this one working for you anyways????

I would like to see pics of it in your car, and here your results.

Thanks kansashonda

[AntDavison]

have recently had built a stainless outer case for this, replacing the old plastic one, so now can pressurize upto 60psi plus

using water + H2SO4 as electrolyte, with two of the four plates wired, outlet now has a one way valve, and coiled copper tube (1/8" od, around 1mm id)

at 7v, 30 - 40A chopped to 75% pressure consistant at 15psi and nice flame, that doesnt burn back and explode internally popping the pressure gauge as KOH was doing, will attach to a small motor within the next couple of weeks

[Bob Boyce]

H2SO4 gets consumed in the process, so it is not a sustainable catalytic reaction. The reason you are not getting flashbacks is because the oxygen gets bound in the sulphur dioxide gas that is created. Be very very careful about breathing any vapors or fumes from that reaction, it will cause permanent and fatal lung damage very quickly.

Bob

[AntDavison]

thanx bob will bare that in mind ... are you suggesting NaOH

[Bob Boyce]

NaOH is a good catalyst as well. When you use a true catalyst, you will create both hydrogen and oxygen gases in stoichiometric ratio, so you will have to design for controlling flashbacks.

Bob