Low energy Input, mass hydrogen output methods in use.

[golden_guppy]

[jjbeamish]

[WaterFireHO]

[Jay]

so is it basically that H2O :

(1) is bonded together? with a frequency (which may be matched? with a frequency that would "break" this first bonding freq

OR is it

(2) vibrates as a result of its bond? (which is already pretty darned unstable)


Or maybe I am wrong on both accounts, but knowing which would seem important

[Jay]

[Jay]

[thrival]

You guys are funny as hell. I really enjoy your brainstorming.
I'd opt for resonance rather than dissonance tho. At resonance
your power factor (exchange) is perfect and power levels go WAY up
and out of proportion. You get a lot more done at less power. See:
Basic Oscillators by Gottlieb. Dissonance is randomness while
resonance is cohered and orderly. You have your fundamental frequency,
then 2nd, 3rd, 4th & xth harmonics of same. Dissonance offers none of
that. Water being itself is already doing a random thing.

That said, dissonance might work if you maintain order otherwise, as in
polarized plates.

[BillyHydrogen]

Too bad we cant recreate what tesla did. He had that small little device that matched the vibration of a object . Then amplified it and kept sending it back in until it disintegrated.Is there any way to see what the vibration of water is? Obviously he had a way.
I`m surprised he didnt try to get hydrogen. He made ozone.

[GarbageMan]

Question: How do you drive a nail through a board using only one push of your foot?
(Won many a beer with this one)
Answer: you don't put the nail through the wood, you put the wood around the nail. Place a nail standing straight up on the floor, get your board standing on end nearby and let it fall on the nail. Give it just a little push with your foot and......Whack! the nail is driven home.

My point is: you took advantage of energy that's already there so you only had to add just a little more to do the work. The board has Kinetic energy when just standing there. As it falls, turns to potential (with the help of gravity) then you lightly push the board down with your foot close to the bottom so as to greatly accelerate the other end (little mechanical advantage there), Job done.

Lot's of energy laying around and you put it to good use.

That's what he's figured out. 3 techniques into one. Chemical, electrical, and maybe mechanical/thermal?. Symbiosis.

As for the electrical mumbo-jumbo you guys are talking about above, I don't pretend to fully understand but let me throw out something:

"Destabilize the water, at the same time add electricity to break the bonds"...
So what about Ultrasonic? Like putting two electrodes in a ultrasonic jewelry cleaner? A.S. mentions a coil shape (which creates a magnetic field when you zap it) Extra energy laying around we could use? Also mentions Hall Effect switch (which uses magnetism to open/close)- and the ignition module in a vehicle.

What if we put these pieces together? Like apply a DC pulsed voltage to coil shaped electrodes (of dissimilar metal alloy?), which then creates a magnetic field, said field triggers Hall Effect switch, therby turning on/off an ultrasonic device, all in the presence of some catalyist.
-I think maybe you'd go back in time.

I don't know but somebody please look into Hall Effect with more brains than me. There could be more energy laying around we could use because as electrons pass through a magnetic field they "bend" toward one side creating a voltage potential across the conducting medium.

[owl]

All,

Interesting discussions on the resonances and I think garbageman had a good point in that for real effecient breakage of the hydrogen/oxygen bonds we will probably have to use a number of different mechanisms (electrical and/or mechanical and/or chemical).
In my profession that I do to pay the bills, I work for a company that produces piezoelectric transducers and the associated electronics to drive them. We then take these transducers, and then put them into arrays that are used in many ultrasonic applications.

The problem with trying to use piezoelectric transducers to create the 2.4 GHz frequency is that it is almost impossible (or at least probihitively expensive). Piezoelectric transducers resonate at frequencies that are dependent upon their capacitance. The capacitance is a direct relation of the physical shape of the ceramic element. There are literally hundreds of shapes (cylinders, blocks, discs, donuts, etc.). The lower you go in frequency, the larger the physical transducer size has to be. Piezoelectric transducers are also very "narrow band". This means that once you get a physical configuration of a transducer, it will resonate over a very narroe frequency. In other words, it is physically impossible to get a transducer to vibrate over a very large frequency band. They typically have a bandwidth of about 10 kHz or less. So, if we wanted a drive a transducer at 59kHz, then, because of it's physical configuration (that it is designed for) it may resonate efficiently over the range of 54kHz to 64kHz with the most efficient frequency being in the center of the band (59kHz).
Also, piezoelectric transducers are pretty inefficient. Typically their efficiency is around 45% - 65%. This might be okay if you want to heat the water
The highest frequency transducer that I have used is in the 900kHz range. This is way short of the Mhz and Ghz ranges that has been discussed.

I like the idea of vibrating the electrodes....
Open up a computer, and take off the heat sink of the CPU. Use this as the positive voltage electrode. Get another heat sink just like it for the negative voltage. Burn off the paint, and fasten wires to it. This has a lot of surface area. Now put a pulsed DC voltage on the positive terminal. Vary this frequency until you hit the resonant frequency of the heat sink. Better yet, there are Finite Element Analysis programs that will calculate the resonant frequency of any model. Put the CPU heat sink model in this package, and you now know at what frequency to drive it.

Our company also designs a lot of mechanical structures. We have to do a lot of Finite Element analysis to make sure that the resonant frequency of the shape is way out of band from what it will see in real life. If we don't do this right, then we have a "Tacoma Narrows Bridge" situation (very, very, bad for the younger audience). However, in our case, we would want to drive the structure (our electrode) at this resonant frequency. Not to the point of self destruction, but just enough to keep 'em shakin'. If, during the chemical reaction a voltage is generated, this could be modulated so that it is fed back down the electrode to keep them vibrating.

On another note...
Please be careful about using the 2.4 GHz range of frequencies. If this is put into a transmitter or amplified, it will radiate a very dangerous microwave frequency, and fry you (i.e. think of a microwave oven). I think the only safe way to use this frequency is if you turn on and off the power to the electrodes with out amplifier. I am assuming that everyone understands this.

'nuf said for now... you can all wake up now!

[GarbageMan]

Any truth to Keely's observations at 610, 620, 12,000, and 42,800 Hz?
sweetspots?
Also a Dr. Puharich (going from my notes here) claimed 600Hz was optimal.
If higher frequency is prohibitivley expensive (monetary or energy-wise), what about around 600?

Anybody try? If not I'll give it a go but need knowledge or vendor info. to obtain whatever the hell it is that can get me in that range.

b'out time I got my hands dirty.

[Cryptonic26]

The easiest way to build a flexible pulse generator is to use your PC audio out port. You can run a tone generator to produce any sort of wave configuration, square, sine, saw etc... in the range of 1hz -> ~30khz.

You'll have to run the signal through an amp of some sort. magnetic relays dont work well for anything above 20hz (they stick, and ruin the wave quality).

I've been keeping an eye out for a cheap 600watt car stereo amp to play with for just such an experiment.

I built a low frequency pulse generator this way to drive an ignition coil once.. be sure your PC has decent EMF protection if you want to use a spark gap! hahaha

[Dan Dan]

I personaly want to know how to generate a frequency between say 42Khz and 43Khz with pulse dc electrolysis. Not quite sure what you guys are up to, but im looking for somthing that oscillates electricity. If I understand correctly, you guys are trying to oscillate water Phisicaly (as in Literaly vibrating it)? ALASKASTAR mentioned somthing about that in the early days of this thred, and im sure it would work, just dont know how to do it. The mensioned PC board thing is way over my head. i think. any way, im wondering if any one has any diagrams/schematics of a working pulse DC electrolysis oscillator circuit (preferibly a single frequency that is adjustable, to keep it simple), or even a good oscillating IC (Integrated Circuit) that is adjustable and goes up to around 43Khz would be helpful. intrusted in cnctony's design, but couldnt find that specific chip, and the email wont work on the site (it sent ME the message that cnctony was suposed to get, and he probably got the one that i was supposed to get. o well:) ill have to contack the site admin. about that. has it happened to any one else?

Thanks.

[thrival]

Guys:

It only takes 1.25V to dissassociate water; that's
it! Ordinary construction grade white quartz sand,
is piezo electric. Resonant frequencies of water
aside, if you vibrate your chemicals the bubbles
should release quicker. Water is a good conveyor
of sound waves, at least dolphins, whales and the
US navy thinks so.

So I say, stainless steel chips (large surface area)
mixed with sand in two separate compartments,
separated by a membrane, add water and electrolyte,
fiddle with frequencies. If 60Hz makes surface steam
(it does) then imagine 600, 6khz, or 60khz! Then
again, lower base tones could well do it.
Don't explode your container.

[owl]

All,

Here is a link that I found interesting on the resonance of water. Note disclaimer on top of web page about independent duplication of this expirement.

http://www.ecosustainablevillage.com/us_patents.htm