Newbie - Help me get started - please :)

[theDaddy]

Hi,

First let me say that I love the site and it has inspired me to experiment. It's good to find a group of like minded individuals.

I want to look into the sustainability of a torch flame. I've designed a neat control system and computerised diagnostic software. Before I go into production of my first prototype I would like to be clearer about the application of power to the electrolyser.

I've read the published experiments and see that low volts reportedly produce nearly the same gas production as high volts. Does the setup require any pulsed frequencies? Or is the power applied directly i.e. standard DC?

My design at the moment uses a 12v rail into the electrolyser I have still to decide/perfect the form this power will take (pulsed/nonpulsed etc). It is switched on (applied to the electrolyser) by a relay controlled by the computer control.

I guess what I am asking for is a schematic of the best power rig produced so far so that I can avoid covering the same ground as others who have contributed to this cause.

Hopefully once I have the first prototype up and running I'll be able to contribute some valuable information,statistics and software to the site.

Any suggestions or recommendations are welcome.

Here is a screenshot of the beta control software:





Not sure if the screenshot will work or not, I'll mail it to anyone who cannot see it.

[WaterFireHO]

Check out Bob Boyce's welder in the Projects section

[Aspectus]

I have a question for you.
I'm interested in the computor controled idea.
I was actualy planing to program micro chip to do the computors job and have a LCD screen as a output display.
How are you going to control relay thought teh serial port?
And what language you are using to write software?

Here some answers for you:
1.2 volts is seems to be the Optimal volts.....
12 volts make too much heat and wastes watts
I have tryed freq using a microchip with soft i wrote, it actualy worked worse than strait 12 volts.
Plus if their is magic freq, most mosfets and spetialy relays won't swithc fast enoth.

Hoppe it was helpfull

[theDaddy]

Hi,

Thanks for the replies.

I'am using a velleman usb kit (K8055), it uses a pre programmed pic chip and has the computer interface made in the form of a .dll file. It's quite easy to code the routines in MS Visual Studio using the language of your preference. It also works with object pascal and other borland stuff c++ c# it really is quite cool. If anyone needs help with the programming I'll be happy to help.

I've looked at the diagrams in Bob's pulse modulator part of his work online and whilst it is very detailed there is mention of a 'D' revision which I cannot find.

Still I've decided in the interests of the cause to move to building even without a clear way of powering the electrolyser. I'll take snippets here and there and test them all!

It seems the best way I'll bang out as much statistical data as possible on all the various methods and hopefully the best direction will become clearer. If I can get some form of standard test bed created into which the power supplies are simply swapped in and out then I/we can be sure of a fair comparision with all designs.

Thanks again and keep in touch.

[Bob Boyce]

theDaddy

Sorry, I have not uploaded Revision D of the PWM board. I have been busy on a new design which I will give more mention of below. I am getting ready to add the modification info for fixing the older PWM Revision B and C boards, now that testing of a new opto IC has been completed. The H11D1 turned out not to be a good choice at the frequencies we need.

Interesting that you mention microprocessors, because that's exactly what me and Dave have been working on. I have a PCB layout drawn up that is still waiting to be proofed. This design is based on the Atmel AT-Mega48, which has 6 onboard A-Ds and 6 onboard PWMs. Each PWM pair has a seperate timer. Despite the timer frequency limitations, we have found a creative way around it. A new opto IC has been researched and tested to satisfaction at up to 111 Khz with a Mega48 (running on internal 8 Mhz clock) as the waveform source. I am running the Mega48 with an external clock at 20 Mhz for this application. There are some variables to the waveform generation that is best handled via microprocessor control.

We both have the Rhombus Experimenter Kits, and I bought one of the Atmel AVR STK500 starter kits for greater programming flexibility.

Bob

[theDaddy]

Wow thanks for the info, there's some interesting sparks to look at and play with. I've gone for the easy usb kit for the .dll interface - I can code miles faster than I can design circuits.

I'am playing with the idea of researching a way to interface a PC based pulse generator then amplify it to the required ~umph, if you know what I mean.

If I can do this it should be an easy case of running an algorythum to loop through the various frequencies and have the diagnostics card control the amount of amplification in another segment of the same looped algorythum coupled with the stat capture it should be a case of press the button and let the computer do all the work..... in theory - the programming is'nt the hard bit for me the learning curve is mainly the cost involved (as always), my wife and I have a new addition to the family, she's been made redundant and my job hangs in the frey - but oh hey shit happens. Hence the name 'theDaddy' and the much cheaper rectreation of playing in the garage!! I've got the promise of a few cool test bench tool for my B'Day in Jan so the serious build will start then.

Does anyone have a favourite build of electrolyser - tube - box - square - round - sealed - wet has there been a 'my favorite' style found yet??

Thanks again - theDaddy (Mike)

[adam666]

if you get the drive electronics, ie FET or similar to carry the current at the frequencys required,


could you not have the PC feeding the desired frequency signals straight to the FET and powering that way?

[Cryptonic26]

Hey TD, I just thought I'd throw my PC pulse generator hack on the table. This may or may not work for you, but its a reasonable in-a-hurry rig.

Not too long ago, I was playing around with some ignition coils and needed a driver. Didn't have the stuff on hand to make a real pulse generator so I simply took advantage of my PC audio-out port and a small cascading relay setup to drive a DC pulse to the coils.

If you have a decent audio amp, you could ignore the cascade, and drive a larger relay directly. I find that the standard magnetic relays will stick sometimes, and will totally ruin the pulse timing; so a solid state, or transistor based system would be ideal for higher frequency pulses.

All that is left is to send a square wave to your PC audio driver by any means, and there you have it.