SODIUM

[kadora]

GUYS WHY THE SODIUM IS NOT USE FOR HYDROGEN PRODUCTION

[rsgpitt]

Um because it explodes when you drop sodium in water. Then you get lye gas. Not good. The only way to get hydrogen without it igniting is to have a small enough reaction to keep the temp of the sodium under the iginition temp of hydrogen which i believe is 495 degrees farenheit but im not sure. Anyway in those amounts its not worth it.

[thrival]

Hey this may be crazy, but how about a cylinder of granular chemicals,
say sodium and copper, thru which we suck wet vapors through? I noticed
that cold vapor bubblers get nice and frosty, even in the summer.
Might keep the temp low enough to make H2 production with Na
possible. Sorry no electrolyte, only fast-flowing vapors. So many
experiments, so little time.

[Nick]

Thats the way you can generate Hydrogen from magnesuim. It reacts slowly with water but faster with steam.

Mg(s) + H2O(g) -------> MgO(s) + H2(g)
(Steam) (a salt)

[btrautman]

[thrival]

[btrautman]

[thrival]

I said wake up, not put bags over people's heads--literally
(speaking of repuglicans) "need to torture you." And from
a born-again xstian no less!

[kadora]

HI BRAUTMAN
YOU SEEM TO HAVE SOME EXPERIENCIES
WITH SODIUM PRODUCTION.
COULD YOU EXPLAIN ME WHAT DO YOU DO
[OR HOW YOU TREAT] HOT AND REACTIVE
SODIUM AT THE OUTLET OF YOUR DOWNS
CELL
IM NOT ABLE TO FIND ANY INFORMATION
ON INTERNET HOW IS TREATED AND STORED
SODIUM.
THANKS

[btrautman]

[OgreOwner]

It can work!

A few years ago, a person named Jed was fascinated with the reaction between Sodium and water. He played and puttered around until he came up with a way to react soduim with water SAFELY. Most people try to do it at the surface of the water. The reaction is so energetic that Hydrogen + Oxygen + energy = BOOM!

Jed reasoned that if there were no Oxygen present, Hydrogen and Sodium Hydroxide aqueous would be the only byproducts. The dilemma was how to get rid of the oxygen. The answer was to do the reaction underwater. He put the Soduim inside a plastic sphere that protected it from the water. He called them PowerBalls. He built a tank that would hold up to 1,000 of these balls and enough water to react them all. Being less dense than water, the balls float. He built his device so that there was a narrow neck coming out of the storage tank so that he could put in a gumball type mechanism to move a single ball under a set of cutters. When Hydrogen was needed, slice the coating off of a ball of sodium and before the exposed Sodium can reach the top of the tank it has reacted with the water to produce hydrogen. He also came up with a way to recycle the Sodium Hydroxide back into Sodium metal.

All was good, he had a tank and got a patent US 5,817,157. The patent is a fun thing to read if you know the real device as I do. Then he needed money to build a pilot plant to take NaOH and turn it back into Na. Some money was found and he formed a corporation and give a lot of the stock to the investors. It turned out that the investors could care less about Hydrogen, they wanted to take NaOH which costs 10 cents per pound and turn it into Sodium Metal which sells for $1.60 a pound. There are companies that use Soduim and would be thrilled to have a local source of supply. Most sodium is made in New York State, or in China. His process promised a healthy profit if it worked. The only problem is that the investors wanted immediate profits and were not willing to wait while he puttered and perfected the process. Once the pilot plant was built, they would not keep their hands off and allow them to work out the kinks. The investors had enough guile to seduce the lead techincian
(Jeds cousin) who had some stock to vote with them and vote Jed out.

Last I heard Jed was down in California.

The investors had management experience but not engineering experience. The process works, but the yield was not up to expectations. They stopped funding and the project has stagnated.

I am not sure the exact status of it right now, but he stock is very cheap.

I saw the tank making Hydrogen to power a fuel cell. I came up with a process to get the Sodium inside the plastic balls quickly and cheaply. I still have some. One of Jeds mandates was that everything be recyclable - thermoplastic to encase the Sodium so that the shells could be recycled. The investors were not so picky and so I was not an insider.

If any of you have enough money to buy this company, I would be interested to talk with you. I think it would take 2 - 4 million to purchase the company and get things working again. I see it as a solution for stationary users of hydrogen.

Right now, a company that needs hydrogen has to pay for a tanker to sit outside their facility. Those tankers are not cheap. The price of the Hydrogen has to include the amortization of the tanker. We could put a small shed where the tanker is sitting now and supply Hydrogen at a much lower cost. A computer could track how many balls have been split and generate an email or phone call for service when the number of balls gets under a limit we set. Drive a truck up, suck out the NaOH solution and sliced plastic, refill with balls and water, reset the counters and drive away. Each ball generates a limited volume of Hydrogen, so billing would not be too difficult. A gas meter would do the trick. Back at the plant, reprocess the NaOH back into Na encased in plastic. 100% recyclable and cheaper to the customer than the Tankers.

Sodium for the production of Hydrogen is a safe technology if done as Jed developed it. If anybody has the money and the mindset to let me play with it and get it running properly - send me an email.

OgreOwner