Low energy Input, mass hydrogen output methods in use.

[brian]

[jjbeamish]

[quote="Jebus"][i]“


"catalyst" is SOLID, it is a common material, and using it leaves a "by-product" that is very heavy, has a specific gravity of 1.83.

quote]

More correct: "leaves a "by-product" that is very heavy, has a specific gravity of 1.83 at full solution in water"

[Jebus]

thanks for the correction, oops

[Jebus]

Bob im sorry about that, I honestly did not even know who you where. I was trying to make a point about that that type of situation in general. Again I apologize for using the choice of words that I did as well as for using your name.

[mrgalleria]

Does anyone have any additional info on the following three methods claimed to produce hydrogen?
1. Spontainious hydrogen output from an alloy. See US patent #2,927,856- Samuel Freedman. Ingredients- yellow brass 8%, aluminum 8%, tin-lead solder 1.5%, silver or nickel .2%, zinc 82.3%, traces of powdered copper slag, yellow sulphur, willow charcoal, muriatic acid. One or others claim using an alloy of 7 metals to produce hydrogen. At least one claims 100 miles on one quart of water from a chamber made from an emptied battery case (no electricity was added), and states one ingrediant as being lava rock. I found perlite soil ammendment made from lava rock. This process would get around using chemicals.
2. Spontainious hydrogen output from molybdenum based catalyzers.
3. Hydrogen production from thinly spaced piezo-ceramic wafers (with the property to vibrate at ultrasonic frequencies) found in medical scanners and industrial cleaning baths.

[joslim]

[Dan Dan]

[mrgalleria]

[AlaskaStar]

[brian]

hi all. sorry if this is rehash look at the assignee.

[Cryptonic26]

*pokes magnesium profusely*

[GarbageMan]

I can't let the "cold" part go. Read somewhere that making an anhydrous salt from a hydrate would be an Endothermic reaction. So if Magnesium was in there somewhere..... like Mg + H2SO4 --> MgSO4 + H2.
We could make Epsom Salt and Hydrogen. I think that should reduce the temp. of the solution. Problem is I have no magnesium laying around and that doesn't fit the easy to get part. Does it?
I do have Epsom Salt under the sink so I'll play with it this weekend and report my failures promptly.
That's the second time A.S. mentioned "electricity travels outside.....". I was looking at a roll of saftey wire in the shop the other day and was thinking "that's a lot of surface area". There's gotta be something there. When making sulfuric they run it across a bed of Sodium to build up a charge to hasten reaction and get excess heat to use to run the plant. Can we speed up our reaction/build up a charge? Crazy Idea #74:
So what if these "coils" were constucted as tubes? Maybe 2 or more of different composition. And solution was somehow moved through? Magnetism or the "Ionic Breeze" air cleaner thingy as a motive force comes to mind. A.S. told us to make it efficient so, the materials need to help (big opposing charge), the shape (mentions that alot) needs to help, the arrangement (what goes where) needs to help. If this apparatus worked and was making H2, could you change the rate of "flow" electrically to vary H2 production? The principals of the Edison cell and relation of current draw to H2 production does not compute for me.
Wish now I stayed in school!!

[Cryptonic26]

Pure magnesium IS hard to come by, but magnesium alloys are fairly common. I've got a brick of fire starting magnesium here with me that I'm screwing around with. reacts with water directly pretty slow like. and it takes a bit of abrasive to get the oxide off the surface. heat + salt + water will do it, just get it in your aqueous solution within an hour or so.

I have read that you can get it for about $10 per ton in some places where it's used in industry.

Magnesium oxide reacts with water to produce Magnesium hydroxide, and a lot of heat. would probably make a good coating to get a reaction started with another metal, like aluminum, or zinc.

Magnesium hydroxide is used as fertilizer, as well as a number of it's other reacted forms.

Still looking for the endothermic aspect, but I'm not sure it matters. I'm just trying to make usable products, with H2 byproduct.

[Jay]

Wow, this is fascinating, I cant seem to pull myself away from this thread...I have read it, re-read it and now probably re-read for the 15th time...

I think I'll let my head soak for a while...in coffee.

A lot of great ideas here...thanks everyone for all the sharing, It really has the creative juices flowing.

1 question: is the freq suggested for "vibrating" the H bubbles off AND for dissassociation, or are they mainly for just keeping a larger surface area for the reaction?
I guess I am asking, are they required? If so, would be an external source of energy required, or is the energy required somehow utilyzed instantly in the reaction?


Jay

[Cryptonic26]

myself, I have no clue. I'm still not sure that water CAN be disassociated by vibration.. not saying it can't, but I haven't seen any evidence to prove otherwise. There may be something to it though, I wont peruse it until I have a deeper understanding.

check out patent number 4394230 for some interesting resonance information.

http://www.pat2pdf.org/patents/pat4394230.pdf

That tetrahedron shape is covered in modern physics. probability laws and what have you. I thought it was interesting that the inventor of this thing already had it figured out 23 years ago!

-

One other idea that was bounding around in my head (pun fully intended):

Sound travels at a speed of 59055 inches per second in water.

If you had two parallel walls, spaced exactly an inch apart from each other (much like a heat sinc).. what happens when you thump one of those walls(fins)?

The way I see it, the sound waves could potentially bounce back and forth between these walls 59055 times within one second! Thats 59055hz from a single thump.

Let me rephrase. The sound wave will have oscillated the water between these fins at 59055hz.

BUT! I'm ignoring a VERY important thing here... crystal resonance. If you thump a thin wall of steel, it wont produce a single pulse, it will resonate at a specific frequency from a single 'thump'.

Multiply that frequency by 59055 and you have the frequency that water would resonate between these two crystals spaced at one inch. Play around with the numbers, I'm sure you can figure out what material, at what thickness, and at what length will produce a resonance of 2.5ghz.

I think tuning forks would be a good place to start.