Low energy Input, mass hydrogen output methods in use.

[Dan Dan]

thanks for being honest everybody, but (no offence) i have done years (1) of research on generating hydrogen. I found that the best method so far is in pulse electrolysis. I have also done research in the NAOH+H20+AL reaction, and dont like it at all. Mainly because it uses mass amounts of AL (if you were to run a car on it) and toxic NAOH. I have not heard of the chemical reaction that Alaskastar was discribing (well realy alaskastar just gave clues) and thus, i will research it, aloung with its hazards, before kiling myself. Alaskastar, i am sorry for demanding answers to so many questions, and completely understand/respect your concern. I cant say im new to this hydrogen generating thing, but i cant say ive been doing it for a long time either, and from what ive learned, theres always a chance of getting yourself seriously injered or killed. I just have one small question before i end my post. Do you think that a car could be run off of the Pulse electrolysis alone? if you do not care to answer i can understand, but i just want to know for the sake of making sure that im not spending too much time on pulse electrolysis. thank you.

[OgreOwner]

If you are interested in Pulse Electrolysis, you should look at the patents of Stan Horvath. The second on is the most informative, but you have to read all of them, even the wierd ones to get a real feel for his device. I have been reading and thinking for about 5 years now, and am just getting into prototyping... By nature, I tend to be pretty skeptical.

I do not think that a single Horvath device can keep an engine happy like he claims. I do however, accept that his device will produce Hydrogen and Oxygen as he claims. He claims that his cell consumes 12 volts at 40 amps. That is about half of what an alternator running off of 5 hp makes. First step is to make his device and see how much gas it gives off, then see how many of them would be necessary to keep a 44 cu in engine happy. Probably too many to put on the road, but not too many to put in a garage. Only question is if there will be enogh horsepower left over to turn a generator.

I am not convinced that any electrolysis method will be enough to motor down the road with, but remain unconvinced that we might get a stationary genset running. Where I live, I can turn the meter backwards and get paid a few cents per KwH. I would probably be better off investing in Solar Panels (proven technology, $10,000 in panels and inverters etc. WILL produce $100 a month worth of energy - main draw is to not have to make a $100 a month power bill payment since the Net Excess Generation will probably be negligable. I spend $75 a month in winter and up to $150 a month in summer with the AC on. ) but I like to think out of the box a bit.

So for my benefit, enough of the "motor down the road" and a lot more of "an engine sitting there running" type of talk - though running down the road might be nice...

Ogre

[Dan Dan]

I couldnt find any patent #'s on google... maby i wasnt trying hard enough.
I think it is possable to run a car with pulse electrolysis spitting the water. but i think that we gotta take it one step at a time, and move towards whatever our goals are. Lately ive heard alot about dissosiating water though either chemical or electrical means. anyone know anything about dissosiation of water that might be helpful, or better yet, have any good websites that talk about it? I'm expesialy intrusted in chemical desosiation.

[AlaskaStar]

For Patent Searches:

Http://www.uspto.gov

Click on PATENT SEARCH.

follow directions and a wealth of information will be displayed.

[Jebus]

There is SO MUCH utter bullshit all over the internet about "free energy" especially involving hydrogen production. One of the main reasons why OU is popular is because it is based on the principle of expressing ideas in detailed, coherent, Keep.It.Simple fashion. I think that by throwing information at people and asking them to figure it out for themselves is a major waste of effort and time. Not only that, but it goes against the very principle this site stands for REGARDLESS of how simple it is. I think that your concept of having people understand it for themselves is excellent and is absolutely logical. I do think, however, if you were to simply tell people what you did exactly, it would eliminate the trail and error, and make it MUCH easier to reasearch futher. Wouldn't that have helped you when you were researching and designing? Your choice of proxy is absolutely irrelevent if you were to decide that you wanted to come right out and explain what you did, hell you could do it by email. Im sure email service providers wont get bashed on the news if somebody hurts themselves. You will help everyone out SO much if you just get it out in the open. Does anyone else feel the same way? Or can I not see the emperor's clothes?

[mrgalleria]

Jebus, I agree with you in one thing. If and when I have a car running on anything other than gas- every detail will be immediatly listed here! But if others are cautious, it is wisdom on their part. Many have suffered for devolging their secrets.

[AlaskaStar]

as for anybody helping me when i was researching this, i had ABSOLUTELY NOBODY to help me in any part of it. at the point of completion and functionality, i had gotten "stupid" enough to try and rub it in their faces. see there's too many "chicken little" people out there, and they always have a gazillion raeasons why I should not, or cannot, or could not be possible, and all the other reasons. i always ask "i hear all the reasons of NO. lets hear one simple YES." to date none have come up with a GOOD reason for YES.

like i said giving the answer to people doesn't do jack squat. like a 6th grade teacher giving all the answers to the problems in a math class. NOBODY LEARNS. the science of discovery is of DISCOVERY, when you discover that YOU (ALL OF YOU) are able to do this, and the light shines bright, and the big grin comes across your face as you have figured out something that has had your perplexed for a while, that is the science of discovery. connecting the dots, putting the puzzle together. seeing the picture however large or small. at that point your mind starts to reel, the gears are turning, and you can't sleep for weeks. that is the excitement i live for. i have seen a lot, and learned a lot, and by no means do i know everything. i admit i have a lot to learn. maybe i'm better in the books and hands on science, but not so good on the social side of the spectrum.

and on that note, i might have a lot of reservations on revealing everything, because i have spent SO MUCH TIME trying to figure this out, and when I did, everything else fit into place. and the perspective for the science i was dealing with made perfect sense (TO ME -MY OPINION), and then i moved forward, tons of trial and errors, i would get an idea, and try it, if it worked, it worked, if it didn't, then it did not. those that did not, i have something learned from it, but those that worked i learn from also.

there's not just ONE way that would be the "ONLY" way to do it. it all depends on the application, usages, and any custom criteria that you may have. a system that you do at home may not be practical in a place that prohibits such activity. and a system that you do while driving may be impractical to the type of car that you have, or wish to run on this.

maybe you want to run your car on this, maybe you just want to heat your home, maybe you want to generate POWER from it. the scenarios are as varied as the particular uses for this.

i have my preferences, other have theirs, and it is not my place to bash their ideas, or their priorities for this set of technologies.

AlaskaStar

[Loster]

Jebus, I agree 100% if not more ..

What does your idea brings to the society if it's not exploited .

Your communication media is maybe not a good choice too ..

This information must be avail. to others in the future, and not with a patent.. Patents seem to be filled with stupidities and it's becoming irrelevant ..

[Loster]

Alaska, not everybody is a chicken little .

[Dan Dan]

hhhmmmmmmm....i can agree with jebus, because it would help so many ppl figure things out, and get things finaly running on Hydrogen..

But then again I can agree with Alaskastar, because i does make scence that we should know every single aspect of the system, so that we can answer any questions, correct error, and make it better. not to mension the thrill of learning something new.

But, to everybody that hasnt read the WHOLE thred (including me) (all 36 some pages) i recomend doing that, esppesialy the pages 4-5 and 6, because alot is said, and alot uncovered there. i dont know if it actualy works, or if any ones tested it, because i havent got around to reading it all the way through. I propose that if there are any more clues to be givin that they be given!
Other than that i can see both sides of the argument, but we cant force any one to do any thing, so we might aswell drop it!!!

[BillyHydrogen]

Well, I dont know what a good reason for posting 36 pages of stuff is if we have to work another 3 years to find the answer!! I`m not a lazy person, I have many different projects working at this moment. From solar panels being designed and built, We are building a tesla turbine, working on some membranes, I just built and finished yesterday a tracking system for my solar collector. All these projects I am working on at the same time plus the work I need to do to earn a living.
I find many answers to many questions every day. But to be truthfull Alaska, I find your posts interesting, But until there is more info, I`m not going to waste any more of my time with this unless it be reading more on this thread.
Your work and info are greatly appreciated, but the "thrill" of finding answers to something that is somewhat mysterious, is to me just another ride that wastes my time.
If I am ever asked questions about things I have designed, I just tell the person everything I know in full detail. I look at it like what do I care? If it helps them great!! If they cant figure it out , Well I tried.
I am a refrigeration contractor and recieve many calls per day of people just wanting to ask quetions. Do I make money telling people how to repair something themselves that took me many,many hours to learn . The answer is not really. But what do I care? I wouldnt have the time to go fix it for them anyway.
So with all due respect, You have been on here for 6 months,Wouldnt it just be easier to say what you have learned? It would be for me!!! I will try it and pay the attention it is due. If what you say is true, then you have helped me out. And in turn you have someone that will help you out if you ever would need it.
I think that is how it should work. That is how it works with other professional friends I have , From lawyers to excavators. We all work together to help each other and it works wonderfully. If my friend came and ask me for a solution to a problem that I have a answer to. He probably wouldnt accept me telling him a few clues and then tell him when he figures it out he will get a smile from all his labor! He would think I was just toying with him. You may have your reason for doing this , But seriously it is getting real old to me. Thanks anyway. Peace Out.

[Jebus]

Loster: dont turn what I said into some kind of attack please.

[BillyHydrogen]

I also forgot to mention that there are plenty of proven methods for reducing energy costs. My plan is to have a 8000 sq ft building totally off the grid and gas supply. My projected date to have this done is in march of 2007.
The plan is to have a wind generator for the electric supply. I will bury 12" sewage pipe approx 600 ft in linear lenght at a depth of 48" for the a/c (I live in the midwest). 59000 gallons of beneath ground water storage from 6-10ft x 40 solar hot water collectors (340 btu per sq ft).At noon on a sunny day thats about 820,000 btuh. A 12ft dia solar parabiolic concentrator to make steam to run a tesla turbine. And finally a hydrogen burning furnace for backup heat.(Gravity furnace,no pilot). I have already foam insulated the whole building, and am already heating it to 72 f with a 5 ton geo-thermal for only $125.00 per month total cost for lights machines and all.
Point now being, With all these proven devices, I can start saving now and all of these are all automatic with little or no maintenance. Why would I even want to take the time to figure out alaska`s plan? Not that it isnt a good one.
Why in the world would I spend even a minute to go through all the hassle of figuring out a riddle? I`m not trying to be cruel at all, its just common sense.

I believe most of us here are looking for ways to improve our own lives that can also benefit others. Lets cut the small talk and get to the buisiness of finding better solutions! I have studied enormous amounts of info. I am not scientist,or engineer,or any type of brainiac. But what I am is a doer (Git-R-Done) I will complete my projects and I WILL be off the grid and have all the power I need to spare. Doesnt take a genious. It takes ingenuity. My bills will be notta,nuttin,zippo!!! as far as energy. So if you have a idea that works, share it PLEASE.If you want any of my ideas I will gladly share them down to the last detail. You know anyone else that has a 8000 sq ft building totally off the grid that airconditions and heats to 72 f at 0 ambient ? hmmm.

I built my solar panels for almost nothing, have a few more to do, I am building my wind power generator from scrap motors, My hydrogen will be produced from full bridge rectifiers using free power already being used. The storage tanks are underground hog waste pits lined with cheap foam board and left over rubber roofing material. I will collect enough heat from the sun in 7 hours to heat for 10 days without sun.Well good luck to you all , I`m sure youve heard enough from me for a few years hehe CYA.

[Jebus]

Alaskastar: I understand your decision but I regret it more than you can imagine. I have no doubt in my mind that you are extremely capable and that your design works. But that fact is that is absolutely IRRELEVANT until you show what you did in absolution. If there is no way that you can, than you are literally no different than any of the fakes out there. Not because you are a fake even in the slightest. But because you follow the same pattern. It is IMPOSSIBLE for you to ever be concise and tell everyone what you did. Because of this reason or that, if you never just come out and explain it, YOU WILL HAVE ACCOMPLISHED ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. The principles you have outlined are completely respectable and I admire you as a person. But this withholding of information for whatever reason is exactly what have inhibited true scientific discovery since day one. Please, I beg of you, as a man of science and more importantly as a fellow human being, for the good of humanity, allow us to see and understand what you have done.

[Jebus]

Billy you should for sure put how you made the panels for nothing on the OU project page I would love seeing it.