first time go? i hope so, lol

[mos68x]

Well, while i'm still out here in the sandbox of iraq, i figured that i would try to piece together what i can for the project when i get home in a month or so.

I was looking around trying to find what i liked as an electrolyzer's basic design, and i started with the idea of using a submerged (open cell) electrolyzer. I started purchasing the materials to make it, though now i wish i hadn't, lol. i changed my mind, it's an often occurance lol, and decided to go with the sealed cell that Bob has put together, thanks bob.

well i don't want this material to go to waste so i'll probably end up buying the plates that i was going to do already since the overall size will be the same anyways - 6.375x6.375x.048(about 5.69ea precut). i'm not really sure about using anything thinner than that, though i want to. i still want to bus-bar the electrodes together, i'll just use a voltage regulator for getting the voltage down to goal. plus it'll help me find the "sweet-spot" on demand, i won't have to video recorder stuff to compare output vs wattage effiency.

i could still use the box that i had planned for the submerged type for something else, such as a mixer/storage point for the electrolyte. any ideas from you guys? the box is overall 7x12x9.5

something i was wonder as well was....how much does it cost to nickel plate the electrodes?? i have seen some pics of it done, i think chris was one, anyone else besides him? if it'll increase output, i'm game for doing it.

i will be using the PWM3E board, as soon as i can find a new diode for it. digikey no longer offers their axial ultra-fast diode (4A,100V) in 10pc packages. you have to order them in at least 1500, which of course i'm not game to do since it'll cost near 250 for them. if anyone else can offer some help here i would greatly appreciate it. i really would like to use that board till the next one comes out, unless its already out?

i have a 8,000 mile road trip planned when i get back to the states for my terminal leave(getting out of the army) so i would really like to get something working before then.

can anyone personally attest to more output/real effiency gain of the sealed design? if there is a big enough difference i'll just find another way to use that metal i ordered and go ahead and get the two heavy plates. they're about $63/pc for the size i'm thinkin about(8x8x.375). 3/8 should be able to hold the shape under compression.

can anyone tell me what they ordered for the compression gaskets? i have yet to see anything clear for gasket material i'm lookin at PTFE material right now for the final build, unless the really cheap Natural Cork will hold up to the alkali and the pressure that this thing will make.

i'll find some pressure release valves, both for emergency and as well as for non-operational time, ie normally open. a flame arrestor is on the list too, along with trying to find some hard metal lines for fuel delivery.


anyways, long enough post. tell me what you guys think about it.
thanks

[glenn_aircooled]

[mos68x]

[Bob Boyce]

[Bart West-VL.]

[Bob Boyce]

Of course I tried varying the frequency, it made sense to try. However, no matter what, as pressure rose, resonance decreased, until it stopped totally. By about 14 PSI, the resonance output was already decreased by about 50%, and I am not talking about volume at pressure, which would decrease by 50%, I am talking about volume measured at atmospheric pressure. By 20 PSI the volume was reduced by about 85%, and by 25 PSI resonance was dead and could not be restarted at any frequency. The only way to get any flow going again was to bump up the voltage and run it at brute force electrolysis. As I mentioned before, when running resonance, I drop the applied potential per cell way below that required to sustain ordinary electrolysis. I ran resonance between about 3.5 PSI and 5 PSI into the regulator that dropped the output low enough to drive the propane induction systems.

Bob

[Bart West-VL.]

So, can we say that a vacuum would be far better then atm. pressure?
Of course, water boils in a vacuum , that's another problem then, ... or not.

[AlaskaStar]

well there are devices to assist in this problem. for example, instead of doing it in a vacuum, or letting it build pressure, why not keep the pressure "neutral" so to say. this means that it does not build pressure, nor is it in a vacuum. a Ford 6.9/7.3 Litre Navistar by International (IHC) has a round can mounted near the rear of the engine. it's sole purpose is to keep the crankcase at "neutral pressure" while the intake exhibits a negative pressure, or pressure drop, and the crankcase exhibits a positive pressure rise due to the back-side of the pistons as well as blow-by. if the pressure in the crankcase were allowed to drop to match the lower pressure in the intake, the oil from the crank-case would then be sucked into the intake manifold and resulting in the engine being "run away" and no way to turn it off, until it explodes from lack of lube or mechanical failure of parts at excessive RPMs.

Note these "pressure neutralizer" things are found on the NON-TURBO, NON COMPUTERIZED engines. these engines were made from 1983 to 1992.

So maybe this little device could help you out. it is even designed to withstand pulses in pressure due to piston pulses on both the intake and the crank-case.

AlaskaStar

[waterbard]

A baffled tank like that to regulate pressure fluctuations would store hydroxy I think. Isn't this kinda dangerous?

[AlaskaStar]

Quote:

A baffled tank like that to regulate pressure fluctuations would store hydroxy I think. Isn't this kinda dangerous?

:End Quote

-Waterbard

this area of science is dangerous. how many deadly events happened with steam power before somebody figured out how to harness the power and use it safely?

Pioneering a new field of anything is dangerous whether to your pocketbook or your life, either way yes this is dangerous. obviously the technology "we" meaning researchers are needing to move forawrd does not exist yet, so a substitute method or a multiple thereof will function for the interim. now with this said, YES it is dangerous. Is driving around with 40 gallons of diesel fuel in your truck dangerous? HECK YA! what about 38 Gallons of gasoline? this stuff can be rather messy if punctured in a collision with sparks from the battery!

how about hydrogen? not much different

AlaskaStar

[MarkinAustralia]

Hi ,
I hope this site helps
Worth a read.
http://www.geocities.com/waterfuel111/index.html
Kind regards
Mark

[waterbard]

I wasn't criticizing, I just thought the idea of having an electrolyzer in a car was to eliminate the danger of having a hydrogen filled tank in the car, by creating it on demand, thats all.

[mos68x]

Thanks for the comments everyone. I have made the lower part of the tank so far, being constructed of TIG welded .048 304 SS sheet. Might I add that this project was certainly not the smartest thing to start on while trying to learn TIG, lol. Anyways, I still have to add the flange to the lower part of the tank, but so far I think that the bottom section will not leak, at least not at ambient pressure. Hopefully I will get the flange made so that I can weld the top on to it and start working with my electrodes. If anything, I will start on the electrodes so that I can get pictures of them up. I will stick to 6x6 simple so that it doesn't get confusing, and it will leave me ample room on the sides of the tank. I plan to add buffers, ie rubber, to absorb road vibrations. I do plan on using these same electrodes in a sealed cell later so i will do my holes for bolts with that in mind.

I will have pictures up on the project page soon as I get them downloaded from the camera.

[mos68x]

[glenn_aircooled]