Hi Bob remember me? My Goal, Options, etc.

[Simy22]

Hey Bob Do you remember me? I know I havnt been around for awhile!


I'm glad that so much progress has been made, its almost amazing! I say almost because I knew it was simply a matter of time.

I dont know if you guys have nailed the frequency, or even the range, was specificly curious about that, and if you have where I could read more about it.



I have a goal, quite ambitious, I've got a new turck much bigger then that little nissan truck I had. This one is almost 3 times the size i think, a chevy V8 5.7L getting a whopping 9-12 MPG.

My goal is to with a somewhat limited budget increase my milage to about 30 MPG city within 12-18 months.

My ultimate goal is to get a new truck (hopefully with a V6 gas, or maybe a diesel) to get over 100MPG before I graduate college, with my limited funds, and now... limited time.


To jump start this its probibly going to be alot of trial and error, but I was thinking you might know the answer to this fairly simple idea.

My best guess is that my engine maybe uses about 20% of the fuel its given to burn to provide the power the engine needs to run, whereas the other 80% is used for keeping the valves clean and as a type of lubricant (which I just recently read about) and a large portion is just plain wasted. I know that the maximum amount of fuel I will use is about 40% if its burnt correctly, as I believe that is the best case condition for an engine, which has some sever mechanical energy problems (like recripricating, wasted heat, friction, etc)

is that number close to a scientific standpoint?


One thing Ive recently read also suggest that in WW II, our aircraft carrier-based aircraft used to inject water into the engine to increase its power, and effiency to provide more power to take off.

Ive heard of this being done, is this a viable solution to help not use so much fuel for no reason? Also on the same page (I can get it later for a reference right now im still in the reasearch/planning/reading alot stage) an individual reports using the EGR to push water (very vauge on how other its working, may be pressure may be heat, etc) is this somthign worth looking into? I was originally thinking of getting an injector that could spray water mist into where the TBI injectors spray water (this will more then likely be my first modification)

That coupled with running the engine learn (which may require some modifications of the valves as i understand it, is this worth it, or would the water work?:) may just push me up to an extra 2-5MPG whould would then be used to help save up for some kind of an electrolisys box.


Onto the electrolisys box, Apparently I'm not the first person to think of using a stainless steel screen, what I specificly am thinking of doing is using a fairly fine screen, that is affordable, I've seen somthing that is about $5 a sq ft, this is a bit high for me, when I dont know what the end results would be. I plan on building a box with around 8-10 cells (i want it to be as efficent as the numbers can come out to be with using 13.8 V) I figure 1.38 V or so a cell may be quite efficent as (again from what Ive read) 1.24 anything else is used as heat. I do want some head though, as it may help agitate the water a little and produce more turbalnce in the cell allowing more bubbles to come up to the surface, if it helps get more hydrogen then in the end its not a bad thing, and the engine should be able to deal with a little more water, or alternativly i could turn the other water injector to a lower timing value (I'm assuming it should spray stop spray stop spray stop, as i think thats what the fuel injectors do.)


I was recently in a car accident, I was getting a new car with a very nice MPG, the car I had just bought (before an F150 slammed into me) got about 20 MPG I was going to use that as a test bed, but I didnt have the car long enough to do anything with it, only had it for about 2 months and I was still paying for it.


Now very familar with the laws of movement, IE mass * speed + mass * speed = me really hurting for almost a month, means I'ld much rather prefer and feel safer in a larger vehicle. The lowest ill go is a 3/4 ton truck.

So I'm left with starting from scracth more or less, I had just started to figure out a way to get enough room for a small box in that car too!

The new truck however is an 88 chevy 2500, I have ALOT of enngine bay room!


Thanks in advance for any suggestions you may have, As im mostly banking on hydrogen providing the best milage boost compared to what is out there, this is mostly about hydrogen, but first i need to cut back on what I'm using to be able to afford to do this in the first place!


Which is more expensive, SS plates, or SS mesh/screen? and which is more efficent?

I still want to try the screens, I have an idea on how to keep the spaced, then I will just build multible boxes, as large as my engine bay can fit, and then use those in series, then build somthing to try and resonante them... But i remember last time the plates were really expensive, large(thickness), and heavy, I'm very seriously considering doing a weight reduction in a few places I can, so i dont want to add too much more weight.


And, how much am i wasting by not having a complete exhaust system? where the catalitic converter is (i believe that is what it is, it may be the muffler) it fell out, all the pipes are intact before it, after it they are a little rusty. as my goal is not to fix anything that dosnt specificly affect milage, if it dosnt matter, or dosnt matter much I donot really care. it is shortly after the bed starts, about a 2ft section of pipe is just missing, the truck isnt extradonarily loud, but it isnt quite eigther. and I cant find anybody with a welder around my area, and paying a shop $100 for a quick weld just dosnt make any sence to me.


Thanks again guys, I'm sorry its so long, after i went to comp1 i just cant seem to write very short things anymore without loooking at it and thinking to myelf am i really getting everything across that I want to? I'm working on shortening things again, not that I wrote perticularly short things in the first place... you get the idea..


-Simy

[Simy22]

I'm sorry i didnt spell check, im fairly tired and ive seen atleast 20 errors, mostly spelling (my biggest problem). If its that difficult to read, I'm sorry. I'm having a little trouble rereading it, and i cant find a way to edit it at this time.


I was talking about adding an injector to spray water, where the (stock) injectors spray gas, I was tlaking about adding an injector specificly ment to do this, not try to use a stock injector to spray water, I think its worth making that clear. otherwise.... who knows what would happen!

[Bob Boyce]

Welcome back Simy. It's good to see you are still alive

Screen or plates with holes do not work for series cells.

My new shop is nearly finished. Have been working on getting the machining wall laid out now. I am in now the process of building a tooling storage cabinet/stand for the 3-in-1 Mill/Drill/Lathe machine recently aquired.

Bob

[Simy22]

Still have AIM?

I saw on this site your construction crews... and then read about how you had to fix it, lol soo typical.

If i use a screen mesh instead of plates i would just insulate the cells, or just build several boxes and hook them up in series, right now its more a matter of effiency, both the cost, and the gas output. with a screen there is (if i could find the right screen) more area pr a given size vs a plate, but, if a plate had deep groves made in it, it may have the same effect.


Where did you buy your plates, and how much were they? and perhaps where else is a good place to look?

[Simy22]

I know what I would prefer to have is some stainless steel roll, about 2 feet wide, with a thickness strong enough to hold up and not flex after put inside a box, but thin enough that it could be cut by an average persons tools.


My dad used to make aluminum sheets cut a sized to specific jobs (usually for things like sheds, or roofs for cheap porches) I was thinking if aluminum is that week, but is strong enough in that thickness that it would be perfect for stainless steel for this. Should be a bit cheaper to as it is not so much material. or if a more foil version, stuck to some panel inside the box to strengthen it, that could be really really thin, as we dont need a large amount of raw material.

but with eighter version, you couldnt scar it deeply, or at all without likley breaking it.

I just keep going back and self between 4 diffrent options, im just over thinking everything I think, but I also wana try resonance, thats why i was with the mesh/screen idea, but in thinking of it i havnt found anything with a tight enough mesh yet to make it worhwhile.

[Bob Boyce]

Seperate cell boxes in series do not work very well for efficiency, and even less well for resonance. The efficiency issues are due to cell magnetics, whereas the closely spaced cells allow the cell fields to add to one another. Individual cells do not benefit from this, so peak efficiency is lower. The resonance issue is due to individual cells not being able to all resonate at the same frequencies. You would be forced to create a power supply and resonance drive unit for each individual cell, which would drive up the cost of construction MUCH MORE than just using the right materials in the first place.

Thin stainless is fine, IF it can stay rigid. However, that is a lot more difficult than it looks to be. Flatness and parallel of the plates in cells must be kept within 0.002" (2 thousandths of an inch), or +/- 0.001". Also, the thinner the plates, the sooner they will need to be replaced. Plates will eventually erode through, so if you want your unit to last for years vs week or months, you would want to use thicker metal.

Bob

[Simy22]

so where is a good place to look for plates? and what sizes (thickness) would i want to look for? whats your average cost pr plate?

[Bob Boyce]

Well, I have been using 16 guage for years, and it's only been a little difficult to get the metal sheered to size without damage that causes fit and flatness issues. The reject count has been fairly low, typically less than 10%.

Recently, I tried going to 20 guage from 2 different suppliers.

Out of 210 plates ordered from the first supplier, the reject count was a bust, 100% had to be rejected. The warp throughout was so bad (over 0.180") that they were totally useless in a standard series cell.

A sample plate from the other supplier revealed not much better results. Unless one has access to a large press to press out edge distortions (over 0.050"), the plates from that supplier were not really usable.

End result is I will be going back to 16 guage for the next batch of 100 cell welder units. I have sourced from local metal suppliers and from eBay sellers, so there are many sources of 316L stainless steel.

Bob

[Simy22]

is there a way we could talk about this over aim? that way its a faster responce time. if not I shall continue my questions


How much are the plates?


also looking at effiency, it looks like a water-mist device will yeild very little compared to the cost of the injectors, etc... so I may have to get an electroliser cell first, thats why im gettimg more and more curious about the price of the plates.

[Simy22]

The cheapest ive seen of the size you use is close too $140 for 316 pr sq ft

[ElectroGasMan]

[Art]

[spencyg]

[coffeyw]

[aussepom]

One thing Ive recently read also suggest that in WW II, our aircraft carrier-based aircraft used to inject water into the engine to increase its power, and effiency to provide more power to take off.

I think that you will find that it was water-methonal that they in injected
this was to give a short high burst of energy
aussepom