Removing Electrons From Water 3rd level

[hkyle]

Was doing some research again and decided to try and remove the electrons from the water instead of adding electrons to the water (current). This is what meyer was doing. Adding an extreme positive potential.

If this potential is positive enough and the process can be facilitated (ie. through an electrolyte), then the most weakly bound electron (3rd Level) will be removed. If the potential is increased further then more tightly bound electrons can then be removed (2nd Level). The Hydrogen would then come rolling off.
The ease at which an electron is removed is just a question of energetics. To determine, which electron requires the most energy for its removal, we must consider the forces acting on it. The repulsive forces that prevent an electron from collapsing into the nucleus originate from quantum mechanics, and it is they that are responsible for the energy levels in atoms. However it is the attractive forces that have to be overcome and these are purely electrostatic, arising from the opposite charges of the nucleus (positive) and the electron (negative). An electron in a lower energy level is both closer to the nucleus and has fewer electrons between itself and the nucleus. The former is important because the force between two charged particles is proportional to 1/r^2 where r is the distance between them. The latter is important because the negative charges of the electrons shield (or partially cancel out) the positive charge of the nucleus.

The energy required to remove an electron is the net attractive force integrated with respect to the distance from the nucleus. For a second level electron as compared to a third level electron, the average force experienced and also the distance for which the electron has to move against that force (until the force becomes negligible) are both larger. Therefore it takes more energy and is harder to remove.

An atom consists of a nucleus, made up of positively charged protons, and chargeless neutrons - the hydrogen atom has only got one proton in its nucleus, therefore it has no neutrons - and of electrons orbiting around the nucleus to neutralise the positive charges of the nucleus.

not my words quoted from this site.
http://www.physlink.com/Education/AskExperts/ae682.cfm

Good read. This may be an easier route.

[hkyle]

An example : Ionization energy of the electron in a hydrogen atom

In the Bohr model of a hydrogen atom, the electron, if it is in the ground state, orbits the proton at a distance of r = 5.29 x 10-11 m. Note that the Bohr model, the idea of electrons as tiny balls orbiting the nucleus, is not a very good model of the atom. A better picture is one in which the electron is spread out around the nucleus in a cloud of varying density; however, the Bohr model does give the right answer for the ionization energy, the energy required to remove the electron from the atom.

The total energy is the sum of the electron's kinetic energy and the potential energy coming from the electron-proton interaction.

The kinetic energy is given by KE = 1/2 mv2.

This can be found by analyzing the force on the electron. This force is the Coulomb force; because the electron travels in a circular orbit, the acceleration will be the centripetal acceleration:


Note that the negative sign coming from the charge on the electron has been incorporated into the direction of the force in the equation above.

This gives m v2 = k e2 / r, so the kinetic energy is KE = 1/2 k e2 / r.

The potential energy, on the other hand, is PE = - k e2 / r. Note that the potential energy is twice as big as the kinetic energy, but negative. This relationship between the kinetic and potential energies is valid not just for electrons orbiting protons, but also in gravitational situations, such as a satellite orbiting the Earth.

The total energy is:
KE + PE = -1/2 ke2 / r = - 1/2 (8.99 x 109)(1.60 x 10-19) / 5.29 x 10-11

This works out to -2.18 x 10-18 J. This is usually stated in energy units of electron volts (eV). An eV is 1.60 x 10-19 J, so dividing by this gives an energy of -13.6 eV. To remove the electron from the atom, 13.6 eV must be put in; 13.6 eV is thus the ionization energy of a ground-state electron in hydrogen.

Hummmm 13.6 eV very interesting. so restrict electron flow to the electrodes and increase voltage.

Does anyone think this will work?

[hkyle]

Sorry correction you would restrict electron flow into the cell on the - side without restricting the electron flow coming out of the cell on the + side. You need the electrons to be removed from the water not being held in.

Just an idea....
Anyone see any problems with this?

[coffeyw]

[H2-Paul]

[H2-Paul]

[hkyle]

[H2-Paul]

[coffeyw]

[hkyle]

[Rich SAS]

[kevinsatterfield]

[hkyle]

[kevinsatterfield]

[hkyle]