By way of intro...

[gas-mechanic]

Hello all!

I am a 'newbie' member although I have been 'ghosting' this discussion group since around early June, after my brother emailed me an interesting video about a guy named Stanley Meyer and his amazing 'water car'.

That video piqued my interest about using hydrogen to run my emergency generator after hurricanes here in Southern Florida. I am sick of sucking on a tube to siphon gas from my truck to refill the gen. once the extra 5-gal. gas cans are empty.

Anyhoo, I have partnered up with my neighbor, 'Mau369' who signed on here a couple of weeks ago. He, too, has this goal in mind.

We make a good team, as he is the 'electron-mechanic' of the team, having a long background in electrical engineering, while my specialty is the mechanical end, with years as an auto, light truck and motorcycle mechanic with a Masters degree in Mickey-Mouse. Hence - 'gas-mechanic'. LOL

We already have our 'prototype' system built, and are at the stage of working out the bugs:

That is a bottom view of the tube array, with the power leads coming through the lower bracket. Several changes have already been made since this pic was taken. When I find out about proper image sizes, etc. I'll be posting more pics of the system in our own 'Project' file.

We have been reading, studying, planning and enjoying the input and feedback in this group, which was one of the main factors to why we started on this amazing journey of ours. Mau369 and I hope to be an integral part of this Community, learning from and adding to the great wealth of knowledge available here.

I tend to go on-and-on sometimes, but right now I had better stop and get back to preparing for our latest nemesis, 'Tropical Storm Ernesto', truly wishing that our 'water-gens' were up and running already!

[saffordj]

Hi gas mech,

I am also a auto tech but now teach at the local college in S. Fla. I have been working on these things for a while with little luck yet! Do you have any thing that can power a generato yet? I powered my weed eater but only as long as the small gas supply I had lasted and the unit could not keep up. This was Aluminum in KOA. I have been experimenting with more Aluminum in salt soloution with power and get h2 enough to run my weed eater and my generator but only with some gas being fed with it. I will keep trying and let me know if you have any help you can give or I can give you. I am in Lantana if you are nearby? Let's hope we do not get too wet from this storm?

[gas-mechanic]

Howdy saffordj,

Was never called a 'tech' in all my years of being a mechanic! LOL Self-taught mech, bought tools as needed, made-do with things at hand in the early years starting around 1959. Yeah, I'm THAT old!

Took some mail-order courses, but mostly School of Hard Knox! ('Knox' rather than 'knocks', 'cause it's more expensive than a REAL school!) LOL

Our cell is (only) at the 'making bubbles' stage right now. My partner-in-crime, MAU369, is working towards getting those squared squiggly lines on his scopes. We're waiting for delivery of a 'capacitance/inductance tester' that does SOMETHING importnat! It should get here almost any time now.

He explains the electronic stuff to me when I ask about it, but it's still kinda 'black-magic' stuff to me. I turn on a switch and something works - THAT'S what I know about electronic stuff, sort-of. LOL ...but I'm learning!

We haven't gotten as advanced as attaching the cell to anything yet, still have the top open to SEE the bubbles. That alone is a real gas! *pun*

I just 'mapquested' your town to see where it is. I'm still kinda new to these parts (3.5 years). We're in Boca, south of you.

REALLY do have to get to a gas station now to fill up the generator gas cans! Good luck with our 'first storm' of the season! ...Damn 'Ernesto'! ...DAMN gasoline!

Maybe back online later...

[Bob Boyce]

I lived in Lantana for a while. Did a lot of work in Boca Raton as well, spent a lot of time there aiming microwave link dishes and other such broadcast and SMR related work on the upper levels and roof of the Boca Hotel.

Bob

[gas-mechanic]

Hi Bob,

...been waiting for quite a while to post to you after reading and learning SO MUCH from you and others!

THANK YOU! ...truly!!

...and what first 'attracted' me to your posts was, of COURSE, your wonderful avatar! LOL

Don't know what 'SMR' stands for, but I'm SURE it's important and cool! You are one smart fella!

...and hoooo-BOY do we have some questions for Y O U ! !

But not right now, as I'm gonna get REAL busy doing pre-storm prep, right after I take one last dip in the pool before the storm hits! I'm told it's already raining in the Miami area, and that's only about an hour+ south of here!

TTFN...

[Bob Boyce]

Yea the avatar was done as a joke, maybe some day I'll replace it with a pic of something more hydroxy related. Someone sent me that pic and when I saw she was chugging a bottle of water, it hit me to turn the "jugs" into H2 and O2 storage

A few visitors to this site of the female persuasion have voiced their objection, but what the heck, it's all in fun.

Be sure to button up well for the storm. I was there for Andrew, and it was no picnic. I still have nightmares sometimes from the carnage I had witnessed as a red cross volunteer.

Bob

[gas-mechanic]

Ahhhh, Bob... politically correct(ness)! I started typing a humerous response to your reply, but thought better of it, as I just realize that THIS forum is about Electrolsis & Hydrogen Applications, not a soap-box for voicing one's opinions. LOL

Tropical Storm 'Ernesto' blew through here line a phart in a windstorm, with less wind and rain than most of the 'rain-season' daily storms around here! ...thank-goodness!! Good luck to the folks up in the Carolinas and points North, if it strengthens by then.

I now see that I should have posted my very first thread into the OUPower Pub, where it belongs! *Oops, Mah-bad*

More politically-correct thread...

Now, to better-tailor my posting, I've been thinking about all the materials required to build some of the stuff involved in these projects, seeing as I've had to do a LOT of searching online and in phone books, etc.

Is it a foolish thought for "us" to have a place to post the URL's and/or names and addresses of companies that are reliable and can supply the materials and various items one needs to build these devices? ...companies that you will order from again because you were completely satisfied with your first order experience?

For example, I've been trying to find a pressure relief valve suitable for our projects for some time now. I've found plenty of places that have these devices that are too large (8" diameter cast iron things that weigh 200 lbs.), or too heavy-duty (200-1,000 lb. release), etc.

I've also been searching for some Dow Corning #4 Compound so I can seal the end cap of our first 4" PVC round-tube cell, and later open it up again without damage.

...and an inexpensive water-level sensor, or detailed plans to make one.

...etc., etc.

I bought the ss tubing (T-306 - I know, I know - now...) from OnlineMetals because they had what I was looking for and would cut it to length for a reasonable price. I didn't find many other companies online that offered or had in stock or would cut to length what we wanted.

FYI... the tubes were CLOSE, but not EXACTLY the length asked for. And they were all burred, showing me that they were cut with a hacksaw. If I order flat stock, will they use a hacksaw? ...a shear? ...or best, a laser cutter? Don't know, but would certainly ask before ordering.

Chris, I'm not advertising for that company, which is why I didn't make it a link. But it would sure make things easier if Folks could post their 'favorite' suppliers' info so others, especially 'newbies' like me could get a leg up on where to buy, and how much $$.

I'm trying to find a local place to buy plexiglas for our 'next' project. Home Depot and Lowe's both carry some sheets that seem VERY expensive. ...and nothing like ½" thick, just 1/8" and maybe some ¼"stock.

Well, gotta get going and put all the 'stuff' back out on the patio now, as the 'storm' has passed, although there is still a little thunder waaaay off in the distance.

TTFN...

[Chris]

You will find that I have no problem at all with people giving manufacturer information here on the forum. It's quite nice to save the time and research in these cases so link away I don't care.

Advertising porn links or online dating services or some other spam bullshit... now that is what I'll have a problem with and promptly take action.

A word of caution on water level sensors. Remember that the space immediately above the water is occupied by an extremely combustible gas. Many level sensors work on a voltage system where a circuit is broken when the water level drops below a certain point. When this link breaks there is a small chance of a spark being introduced into the gas environment. I'll let you imagine what happens next. The best idea's I've come up with for level sensing is to put a tube (something like a drinking straw) inside the container. In that tube have something very buoyant that will not be eaten by the electrolyte. On top of that buoyant object have a small but powerful rare earth magnet. They sell many that would work from http://wondermagnet.com

Now on the outside you could rig up a high and low magnet switch (either reed switch or hall effect switch) and link that to a SPST Latching relay mechanism.

This has always been my idea of how to properly automate water levels in the cells. I've just never built that far ...not yet!

[Bob Boyce]

Hey Chris

Glad to see you active once again.

I tried the tube with float and magnet trick and had one heck of a time with the floats sticking to the sides after a while. I had to expand the tube size to the point that the float could wander to far away from the reed switch to be reliable before it would stick less. I redesigned and redesigned until I gave up on that. I ended up drilling and tapping some holes in the case at the ends and putting in some #10 T316 level sensor bolts. I o-ringed inside and out, with the bolt threads protruging outside for attachment of sensor leads. What you say about the spark is a very real danger. Because of electrolyte film on the inside surface, you will need to use a high value pull up resistor (I install on the - side of the cell), but you can sense the potential change via a low current transistor or IC, and use the output signal from that to drive a level indicator or other switching system for a refill pump. By using a series of bolts in a vertical coloumn, you can even rig up a driver IC to light up a bar graph level indicator.

I can design a PC board that can function as a safe level sense with DIP switch selectable pump turn on and turn off points, with associated driver circuitry to run a relay for refill pump control. The risks, if built wrong or connected wrong, could be a disaster. This is why I try to refrain from publishing anything like that. I do not want to accept responsibility for mistakes of others causing an accident with injury or death.

Bob

[coffeyw]

Here's a non-electric method of maintaining water levels.

Link to

Coffey

[gas-mechanic]

WOW! Thanks for the info, coffeyw!

That sure looks like a terrific device. I guess I have to 'contact them' to get a price on a couple of caps and the rest of the gizmos.

Will let you know how much these things are.

Thanks again!

[Bob Boyce]

That's dandy for flooded cells with loads of space, but cannot be used in series cells where refill must be done via jets of water directed at each cell seperately in order to maintain even dispersion and electrolyte density.

Bob

[emmett]

Hafta think that two S.S. wires 1/2" or so apart from each other in the middle of one of the center cells so there wouldn't be any voltage differential to speak of. Then read the resistance with an ADC channel from a uP?

[thrival]

Why not just use a mechanical float valve, like those newer plastic
tubular ones used in some toilets? If cells aren't sealed from each
other, a small gap at the bottom should let them fill evenly from
below.

[coffeyw]

I would think that electrolyte levels in a series cell could be managed using a method similar to the fill design built into plastic ice trays.

A narrow overflow gutter could be run high along one side of the series cell at a slight incline and would gather overflow electrolyte, channeling it into a reservoir built onto one end of the series cell. This overflow reservoir would contain the overflow electrolyte at a low liquid level and could be maintained at that low liquid level by an or some other device of your choosing. A small pump could periodically deliver the electrolyte contained in the reservoir to each of the series cells simultaneously, and overflow electrolyte would again run back into the reservoir.

This method is more a brute force method of maintaining the water level, but it's fairly simple. It's like the methods used in hydroponics with timed waterings. Should be able to build this as a part of the structure of the cell itself.

I just can't think of any other design that wouldn't be a grand replication of electronic circuits and other associated hardware.

Coffey