Kww 15 Plate ...series Booster.

[Bob Boyce]

[glenn_aircooled]

[glenn_aircooled]

[coffeyw]

[glenn_aircooled]

[glenn_aircooled]

Glenn, its a bit tedious at the moment "to fill the cells" .
Of course I dont want to Over fill them, so I have a tube going down
to the desired level, its sealed in the top.
I unplug this tube and connect a "squeezy bottle" for want of a better name.
A container with a tube coming out, the container is completely sealed except
for this tube. You can draw liquid ( Distilled water ) into this Squeezy bottle by
squeezing the air out and letting it draw the liquid in.
I connect it to the tube - I squeeze the water in and then with air in the tube,
I squeeze the container/ let it suck - to see if the level is at the bottom of
the tube. If it needs more then pump some more in or if too much then
suck it out. Of course sucking some out will stuff up the concentration,
so its to be avoided. Just add little at a time.
-
Now consider that my car has 7 separate tubes ( makes me sick thinking of it)
Well , at least I can warn others to keep their Electrolysers
in one container , or have very easy filling system.!
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
I tried to test this " The Two 7 cells back to back should be less efficient"
but I can not clearly answer it , I unfortunately had to rush my testing
to get it on the Missus car cause she's going away soon
(which reminds me, I have to do tappets tomorrow) so The test I did,
you can see previously on this thread - it only shows that there was no
great Drop in efficiency with back-back, but because the temp diffference
was too much , I would not hold this conclusive.
What I would love to do - is make a pulsing 27 V DC supply and try that.
Put this 27 V across the whole 14 cells. Now that would be nice.!
- - - and how?.....well what I want to try is the square wave 50% duty
13.8 V from battery, put that into a transformer that is almost 2 times
step up, Now the frequency well I'd like to be able to adjust it.
Certainly make a good experiment.

[Bob Boyce]

cybercrypt

With the 15 plate unit he has pictured to the left, it has a center plate that is a common, then 7 cells on each side.


glenn_aircooled

At the efficiency levels you are getting, you would probably not be able to detect any difference between the totals of each cell stack individually, and both operating together. It is power efficiency where this comes into play, and your power efficiency is still pretty low compared to what it could be. Hey, it's WAY better than the steaming behemoth type boosters, but you should be able to get it down to well below 2 watts per liter. Some of the heating you are getting is from the higher amount of power consumed by 2 cells stacks in pretty much the same space as 1. Some may also be due to the bucking fields between the 2 stacks fighting one another. You may want to go to 8 cells per stack to get better efficiency at your operating voltage. I have gone as high as 9 cells with excellent results, just takes longer to warm up Also, look around for some ABS pipe or ABS sheet to wrap your cells with. It can handle the heat better than PVC.

[Bob Boyce]

Sorry, I'm not going to get into that discussion again. I have given the reasons over and over for years. No more reruns

If you wish to use tap water then by all means go for it. You'll get real familiar with the laws of Faraday.

Bob

[glenn_aircooled]

Glenn, I dont have a Great heating problem. I do like the idea of getting the cells up to say 30 Deg C ( or 86 Deg F. ) very quickly.
So that they operate at their optimum.
-
Measuring : I use the Upturned bottle full of water siting in a bucket of water.
I measure time taken and Have already marked " fairly accurately " the
level of the Volume I am aiming for - say 500ml...
Output tube is directed into neck of bottle and the bubbles rise into the bottle
displacing the water. This continues till the Level of Hyd/Oxy reaches my
mark.
-
Now looking at my avatar " on the left " It is One container, inside it there are
7 cells. This is One reasonably good HydroBooster. It is on the Wifes Vehicle
now. It gives it a little more power - but uses no more Gasoline ( or maybe
even uses a little less).
The 7 Tubes Electrolyser is another Thing altogether. It is on my Vehicle.
It has Given me Heaps of trouble with LEAKS. It is done with two
stainless tubes inside each PVC Tube.
Sorry for the confusion. This 7 Tube unit is of the Individual containers
for each cell - system. Like Chris's but I'm using stainless tubes instead
of plates in parrallel inside each PVC pipe.
-
So the 0.5 Litres per minute ( which got up to 0.6 L ) is for the one as per in
the Avatar. One x 4 inch PVC with 7 cells inside.
More , soon.

[glenn_aircooled]

So as you say Glenn, that one container ( as per avatar - with 7 cells inside it
)
is Making 0.6 L / min of Hydr/Oxy and using 7.6 A to do it.
-
The % KOH added to my water is Not at the level I want yet. I ran out of
KOH. So just had to use my Conditioning solution...... I would guess its
about the 12 % Mark but has some impurities in it.
-
Glenn, your tests with your cells are a lot different.
KOH sends things through the roof because you have more than 1.8 V
across each 1/8 th inch wide cell - container of Electrolyte.
I would use 26% KOH with only 1.8 V and get a nice controllable reaction.
-
Glenn says
" Its also worth mentioning that cells on KOH versus without KOH perform almost identical efficiencies so the KOH is not making things more efficient. Only making things faster. Reason I'm bring this up is to ask if you really needed the KOH?"
- - - - - When you use Distilled Water and only put 1.8 V across any electrolyte
( that is a sealed container where the Current has to go only through
the electrolyte and Cant jump to a higher voltage)
then you will get NO CURRENT flow unless you put electrolyte in it.
KOH is the best.
1.Low voltage electrolysis is More Efficient than High V ( doing straight electrolysis)
2. You have to use Electrolyte to get decent Hydr/Oxy output when you
do Low V electrolysis.
-- - ----------------- - - - --------------- - - - ---------------- - - - ------------

Yes Glenn you could build the cells with larger plates and get Much Much Better
result. You can drop the Voltage across the plates even more
and by using KOH get a Fantastic Efficient Reaction ....Like eco DID.
Still getting the decent output BUT EFFICIENTLY..!!
Dont give up on this Glenn, If it is still unclear Ask again.
I really want you to see this point.
It took me quite a while to get it.
Now all that is holding me back is Money.
Plans are in place to Build Bigger units, but just cant get plate, etc.
( although I did see another sink in the store at work, hmmmm
if only I can hide it from the Plumber.)

[glenn_aircooled]

The unit runs say from Room temp of 20 deg C (68 deg F) and after about
2 hours it stabilises at about 36 Deg C ( 88 deg F ). The PVC can handle
almost 60 Deg C. So I think that there is No Problem.
Of course when I run Higher current with Stronger concentration of KOH,
then it will run hotter. But I am expecting only 45 Deg C. So still OK.
I dont drive that long anyway ( car gives me a headache- noisey. )
-
Yes I wish I could forget the 7 separate cylinders system - it is just too
fiddly. I fixed it up last week and it leaked again yesterday. I want to replace it as soon as
possible.
-
The Next one will be 20 Plates in SERIES. This time in a Rectangular Box.
Thats 19 Cells and it will need Approx 1.8 V per cell , so I will make a power
supply that will Pulse DC at 38.2 V. That is NOT AC..!! It will be Pulsed DC.
I have already begun experimenting with Transformers.
I have cut up my old 15" High unit into 7 1/2 " High plates.
Still a bit High, but better than before.
-
Now each Plate will be sealed around the bottom and both sides.
So that if you pour water in to just one cell right in the middle.....
It will stay in that little section and not run out Fast, It may very slowly
and I mean Very slowly run into the next section. When it is all hooked
up. It will have 38.2 V connected at one end, nothing connected to
the 18 Plates in the middle and then 0 V connected at the other end.
When it is running it will have a difference of Voltage of 1.8 V
when you measure between any two plates that are next to each other.
-
I expect this to put out 0.8 L/min with about 6 A feeding the Power supply.
( Of course I hope for better , but its a start.)

[glenn_aircooled]

P.S. Glenn , I've sent you a message on your forum.
Please ask anything thats unclear.

[freddyflatfoot]

[glenn_aircooled]

[glenn_aircooled]