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[ElectroGasMan]

[spencyg]

Let me ask a potentially silly question...

I know there have been some discussions regarding plate spacing needing 3mm to allow the water to not be displaced by bubble production. It seems to have been experienced by a number of individuals that the production of gas and the efficiency of said production increase as the plate spacing decreases. With a plate spacing of just thousands of an inch, how are these guys getting any water in there to displace the gas?

I had a thought which I'm sure has been discussed here already. If minimal place spacing is best for the system efficiency, why not force water through a stack of plates? I know this works against the common knowledge of efficiency losses at the edges of series cell plates, but if that efficiency could be gained back by reducing plate thickness, than might there be an opportunity for improvement? The gas and water from a pumped system could be routed to a bubbler/ water storage tank where the gas would be collected at the top, and the water would recirculate back into the cell. Has this been tried?

Spence

[coffeyw]

spencyg,

Pumping water between the plates is the very method they are using to make the minimized plate spacing work. They're also driving the plates in a parallel electrical configuration rather than in a series configuration as in Bob's design.

They lose the the efficiency Bob gets by not running their cells in series.
They have reduced the complexity of their cell by using a flooded cell design, but at the same time they've reduced their efficiency further by having to power the pump used to clear the gasses from the cell.

If their SS plates happen to warp for some reason, (even slightly) they will short out due to the close tolerances. Would appear thicker (stronger) plates would be needed to reduce the possiblity of deformation. Everyone has seen the messed up cooling fins on air conditioners.

coffeyw

[spencyg]

I could imagine that any losses from pumping could be recovered with the gain in cell efficiency associated with closer plate spacing. If something like a 14 gauge plate were used, there would be very little chance of warpage due to the relatively low heat involved. I'm getting in material currently to build a series cell....I may make provisions to allow tests for pumping.

Spence

[Bob Boyce]

I would not count on low heating. Any time you pump kilowatts into such a small plate spacing and surface area, you will exceed the surface current density specifications of even stainless steel. Not only will there be heating effects, but there will also be erosion of certain areas of the electrodes, which will get electrodeposited on other areas.

Sure, close spacing has advantages in lowering voltage requirements, but their unit does not use lower voltage, it uses higher voltage/current in order to quicky vaporize the water. The problems with this approach are many. The resultant gas is low in hydroxy content and high in water vapor, the electrodes have a shortened life cycle, and the electrode gaps can quickly fill up with mineralization and eroded metal left behind by the water.

So while they deserve kudos for doing instead of just talking, there are longevity issues with that approach. I have already been there with the higher voltage cell approach, and I chose to design and build something that can last vs something that boils the water off and needs frequent rebuilding/replacing.

Bob

[MarkinAustralia]

Hi Bob and Coffery
I agree with all your comments.
i recently tried pumping water between plates and even tubes...it did not increase gas production at all. I also pumped a lot of amps into a small plate area and made a lot of gas...but because of its high water vapour content found it not very combustable.
I have never seen a flooded cell produce beter than 2.5 watts per litre per hour..but I have consistantly seen better than 1.5 per litre per hour per watt using straight dc following Bob's principles. I am sure with the right electronics this can be improved many fold.
I am happy to see you on the mend Bob...do take care.
There has been a few other developments re Pauls design...the government officials...but I have yet to see anyone independently give an eye witness account of what he has achieved.
Just a foot note Bob....as you know I have looked at , built and experimented with many flooded cell devices...and gusess what i have settled on for a booster design....the sealed cell.....I am following your principles with some minor mods...will get some photos to you soon.
Cheers
Mark

[spencyg]

Pumping water on its own may have no positive effects, but if you use it for the purpose of evacuating bubbles on the plate surfaces to make way for further gas production, wouldn't this be a benefit? I would only consider this if one were to utilize it in conjunction with smaller plate spacing. Bob...if one were to maintain the low cell voltage rules which have been established while adopting closer spacing with the addition of pumping, could there be any possible benefit, or would one just be re-inventing bad wheels?

Spence

[MarkinAustralia]

[spencyg]

[MarkinAustralia]

[Beshires1]