PARALLEL OR JOE CELL

[weggl]

[ElectroGasMan]

I guess I am young then cause I just turned 50.

I need to tell you that the best plain cell without PWM so far puts out 200% of that. It's under the BOB BOYCE folder here at OUPOWER.

1/8 spacing on plates at about 1.5vdc per cell and you can make as many or few cells as you like and still do good gas out. 317 stainless steel is not cheap. That's the only catch.

With 81 plates that are 6"X6" built like this you will get 20LPM.

If you choose a small booster size project 8 plates make 7 cells 7"X7" should make 1.5 LPM or if you are looking at figures per hour that would be times 60.

Per hour the 80 cells make 1200 LPH for about 700watts.

Per hour the 7 cells make 90 LPH for about 150 watts.

No one has done better than that of DC without a PWM.

BOB BOYCE is still leading the way.

Michael

[quote="weggl"]G,day boys.
I’m a new boy on the block. I'm a bit long in the tooth to get too involved with this PWM stuff. I was an electrician some 50 years back and therefore are not up with what most of you young fellars speak about. However I became interested in this gas production as an add-on to my Corolla for the reduction of emissions and the possibility of better fuel consumption.
I am therefore looking to your group for advice. I started by watching John Arrons on u tube. (hydrogentap.com) I built one cell on his design a 17 X 6â€

[weggl]

Thank you ElectroGasMan for your reply.
I had viewed Bob Boyce’s closed cell system previously. He has plate, insulators and another 3mm PVC sheet pattern, however I’m struggling to understand how this is all put together and if it is sealed how does top up water get in? Are there any other detailed drawings available? If so I would appreciate being told where to find them.

The first cell I constructed, I guess is what you learned lot would call a parallel immersed cell inasmuch at the plates went +, -, +, - and so on. I gather that a series cell is + one side – the other with neutral plates in-between. See the old brain is still working.
Is a series cell immersed less efficient than a sealed cell? If so is it because in an immersed cell you get current leakage into the surrounding water?

I need all the help I can get.
Once again thank you for your response.
Warren Eggleton

Weggl

[glenn_aircooled]

Hi Warren , you fellow Aussie and fellow sparky.
You said that you wanted to have a unit to improve emisions
and decrease fuel consumption on your car.
This is easily accomplished, you will not need more than 10 Amps
as long as you do it " efficiently "..................
The most efficient " basic DC " unit is the Series cell.
So yes as you said - it has Positive attached to one end,
-negative attached to the other end.
-say 7 plates in total [ thats 6 cells, each with 2.3 V across..13.8 v / 6...].
Find place in your Toyota where you can fit say a 50mm thick slab -
then work out how big you can go.
For example could you fit a 200 x 200 mm by 50 mm unit on one side
of your engine bay???
- the plates need to be sealed around there bottoms and up their sides
and in an open top unit , have the top open to collect gas and allow
filling. The 3mm you mentioned is great for the gaps. The stainless ideally
should be 316 flat sheet. The electrolyte I recommend [is best for this set up ]
is KOH at 28 % in distilled water. This can be bought at large chemical supplies
but unfortunately I have only found 20 kg bag..ohhh.
You need to run the output gas through a bubbler - where the gas bubbles
up through water... to make a gas fuse and scrub any chemical off.
-
You will find that this will give you a great gain in power and can gain you
economy,,,, but have you got EFI ???
that is another hurdle.
It will definately improve emissions.
I believe that it is beneficial to the engine in other ways - it coats the bore
with a protective coating.
Please ask more.
Glenn.

[glenn_aircooled]

Oh I should mention that a unit of 200mm x 200 mm , 6 series cells
with no leakage problems , Just running on straight DC should give
you in the order of 2 L per Minute.... or close to 120 L / Hr of gas.
A lot of things come into it but you should know that this is probably Too
much Hydroxy to improve economy Unless you change Mixture of fuel
and spark timing. A simpler improvement would probably be gained from
nearer 1 L / Min and using less power and not having to change timing
[but you would still have trouble with EFI...]. This can be accomplished by
reducing electrolyte concentration or reducing voltage [ yes the best way is
by PWM but can also be by resistors [ or even an extra plate - switchable is great]
Glenn.

[weggl]

Glen when you say leakage is that curren or water?
I'm guessing current, is that the reason for seeling the cells?
if that is the reason the all flooded cells would leak, is this so.

weggl

[weggl]

Thanks for the info Glen,
That 200mm x200mm x 50 is that the outside measurement of the unit?
Are the plates 1,5mm x 150x150mm?
Bob shows a 3mm solid PVC sheet with ports cut in, in his drawing what is this for?
I imagine that the case is possibly 12mm acrylic clamped onto the outside of the outer plate gasket, is this where the solid PVC sheet goes?
From Bob’s drawings the PVC gaskets are cut to fit the plates flat on one side, how are the edges sealed?
Are there any sketches around?
As far as installing one on the Corolla it is EFI but I have a mate who runs a performance garage that is his department.
Hows that cell going with the roofing silastic in the 4 in pipe?
By the Glen I live in Manly Vale Sydney close to the fishing hole but alas this gas has kept be away from the elusive bait stealers.

Thanks Mate for your help

[ElectroGasMan]

[weggl]

[weggl]

[weggl]

[weggl]

[weggl]

[glenn_aircooled]

[glenn_aircooled]

Look for answers within your words...............
-
-Thanks for the info Glen,
[you are very welcome.]
That 200mm x200mm x 50 is that the outside measurement of the unit?
Are the plates 1,5mm x 150x150mm?
-
[you have got my general idea - but probably plates more like 175 x 175mm x 1mm.
Now this is just to get you thinking - you may have less space,
you may have thicker plates it doesnt matter, you need to fit in your car
and fit your needs].
-
Bob shows a 3mm solid PVC sheet with ports cut in, in his drawing what is this for?
-
[That is "I think" for a Sealed unit. It has a seal across the top as well as the
bottom and sides. The only way they get gas out is through a special pipe
that is sealed within each cell. They are the Best Efficiency straight DC
units that I have seen. I feel personally that they are not required for a simple
booster in a car like what you first mentioned.]
-
I imagine that the case is possibly 12mm acrylic clamped onto the outside of the outer plate gasket, is this where the solid PVC sheet goes?
-
[ yes - for the Sealed series unit , yes]
From Bob’s drawings the PVC gaskets are cut to fit the plates flat on one side, how are the edges sealed?
-
[ this different style of unit , seals by compressing the PVC gaskit against
the sides of the plates....it is a different animal to what I was talking about ].
-
Are there any sketches around?
-
[ If you want to see one , go into Kevinsatterfield " I may have mispelt that"
projects page and he has some good pics of when he made his one.
You should be able to see what its about from them. ].
-

As far as installing one on the Corolla it is EFI but I have a mate who runs a performance garage that is his department.
Hows that cell going with the roofing silastic in the 4 in pipe?
-
[ its still running in the Missuses Car, it seems to work fine.
I am scared to look inside. I imagine its falling apart in there. I probably wont touch
it until I get mine working on my car and then I'll pull it all apart and see
what happened to all the Silastic - did I tell you not to trust Silastic?
I'll tell you again any way.... dont trust Silastic.! ... it will probably leak. ]
-
By the Glen I live in Manly Vale Sydney close to the fishing hole but alas this hydroxy gas has kept me away from the elusive bait stealers.
-
[ I am just out West from you, closer to you local Drag Strip ! and I am nearly
as young as you, although still working on maintenance.]

Thanks Mate for your help
[ Please ask more questions, keeps me involved while I wait to sell my
terrible invest Property - need money.!]