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MOS68X's new sealed/dry cell
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resident_genius
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 14, 2009 5:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tall balls- mostly because people are too lazy to learn how to write a script and program a chip. a 555 timer is simple because playing with caps and resistors purchased @ radioshack is easier than learning a programming language.
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tallballs
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 14, 2009 6:12 pm    Post subject: IC2206 Reply with quote

yes people are lazy.


sweet benz!
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resident_genius
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 14, 2009 9:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hey thanks. i just disabled the 'lyser in order to put a second unit in parallel, pushing 35 amperes through 32 square inches of plate area isnt exactly what i'd call efficient. the second unit is already built, and i'll admit i stopped working on it in order to go see a girl, haha...priorities! i just wanted to mix all the different batches of electrolyte together and get a really strong mix, then fill up the second unit and screw on the terminals.

so doubleing plate area and keeping amperes the same..... hmmm. even so, 20 amps per cell is still over twice what boyce reccommends. i should bite the bullet and have the local steel company laser-cut me some custom plates so i can build a really bitchin cell with some serious plate area. those switchplate covers are weak, but cheap! 1.38 each versus about seven dollars each.
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mos68x
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 14, 2009 11:36 pm    Post subject: Re: Power Control Unit Reply with quote

chemelec wrote:
Quote:
First, the resonance is created by the 555 and 556 circuits within the PWM, the toroid can't create frequencies by itself it can only transfer them within the magnetic field


The 555 or 556 is only an Oscillator, Creating a Frequency. NO Resonance there.
Resonance occurs When the Frequency is Tuned to a Capacitive / Inductance Circuit. The Torroids Primary Winding creates that.

It is true that the frequencies are tuned to get resonance. However, resonance is an effect of the whole system...have one thing off kilter and you won't find it. Frequencies created at the PWM will create the highest effect from the capacitance through the cell. Changing the cell will change the frequencies just as much as changing the toroid that is used. None of the items single-handedly creates resonance, it is a collective whole.

chemelec wrote:
Yes I realize that "Amps"was a Typo.
I Pointed that out because there are MANY guys on this forum have No understanding of Watts and Current.
I Wish they would add an "EDIT" to postings on this site.
I'm sure you would Agree with that.

It is too easy to understand electronics, it is a simple internet search if you do not understand anything. I can't even count how many times I've used that search function to find formulea for physics and electronics if I'm trying to do something or data test an idea.

and...I would go one step farther and say that it really pisses me off sometimes that this forum software doesn't allow us to edit our posts. It would make so many things much simpler and compact. Of course I don't think that would have changed that error since I was at the end of my day...just like today and was just too tired to notice.

chemelec wrote:
As to the PWM3 Board: I have had Many of these Mailed to me, because the guys couldn't get them to work to achieve any resonance or any increase in HHO Production over conventional brute force electrolysis. (Many of these boards were Half Burned up, needing repair.)

The real problem here is 555's use R/C parts to create the Frequencies. These are Very Unstable and will not maintain an accurate frequency and therefore an Non-Sustained Resonance.
(Both Resistors and caps Vary in value when heated or cooled.)

Were those boards any from the hydrogengarage? I know that many of those very small items are VERY heat sensitive and without my ability to reliably create a board I wanted to go with something perhaps a little more reliable than my own hands.

What specific items went bad? How can you bench test the board to see if it's doing what's it's supposed to?

chemelec wrote:
Anyway, If my Comments are so bad, "Get the moderator to ban me".

I'm not interested in getting anyone banned, I just get irritated with the sensless banther and bickering over stupid shit.

chemelec wrote:
Personally, My only intent is to help guys "save money" on Some of the stuff that doesn't work.

I understand that, I've done the same against the recruiters for the army. I understand most of what goes into the BB design and I think that with certain changes I should be able to get this to run close. If not, oh well, that's why I'm building it so that it can handle the 100amps.

chemelec wrote:
If you have Something NEW, Proven that it Does work with a reasonable Increased Efficiency, I would love to Promote it. Possibly even Invest some substantial money in it.

I would never look for investors for it even if it were the holy grail. I also don't have anything that is new either, it is just old practices combined into one platform. If it works...great, if not, oh well. Brute force always works which is why I'm building the cell the way that I have.

tallballs wrote:
Hi,

I am new to this blog and am currently trying to catch up with all the information here. I have question here as to why would you use a 555 timer? I am currently testing a control unit based on a IC2206 chip which allows me to try different frequencies from 1hz to 1Mhz and different wave forms. I have viewed various size bubbles at various frequencies.

Well why use a 555 timer when there are IC's out there that will do so much more?

The 555 and 556 are just references to the timing circuit even though they are also specific chips as well. You will still find that same circuit inside other IC's much more complicated when they need a timing circuit.


RG, I gave up on the switch plate covers a very long time ago even for just trying to boost MPG. I'd rather spend my $12 a plate knowing EXACTLY what I get is what I asked for as well as it matches my design. I've had to put a lot of thought into my design since there are many things that will effect it. Flow properties through the cell just to mention one, trying to balance the many things going into the design of the cell is the very reason that I went with having them laser-cut to what I wanted\ and the material that I needed. I still feel that using SS309 would have much better results...but the fact that I can't get anyone to quote me a price is getting impossible to test that idea so I'll deal with SS316.
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chemelec
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 10:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

chemelec wrote:
As to the PWM3 Board: I have had Many of these Mailed to me, because the guys couldn't get them to work to achieve any resonance or any increase in HHO Production over conventional brute force electrolysis. (Many of these boards were Half Burned up, needing repair.)

The real problem here is 555's use R/C parts to create the Frequencies. These are Very Unstable and will not maintain an accurate frequency and therefore an Non-Sustained Resonance.
(Both Resistors and caps Vary in value when heated or cooled.)

Mos68 Wrote:
Quote:
Were those boards any from the hydrogengarage? I know that many of those very small items are VERY heat sensitive and without my ability to reliably create a board I wanted to go with something perhaps a little more reliable than my own hands.

What specific items went bad? How can you bench test the board to see if it's doing what's it's supposed to?


Sorry for the Delay, Having HEALTH PROBLEMS!

These boards & Parts were Directly from BB.
This was Long ago and there were Many Problems. Can't remember them all, BUT:
Tuning Controls were Way To Coarse in Adjustment to obtain a Specific Frequency.
Lots of Frequency Drift.
Severe Interaction between 555's. (No Supply Bypass Caps on each 555)
Traces overheating, some burned out and had to be bypassed with wires soldered on.
Poor Drive to the Mosfets from his Opto Isolator circuit.

Basically I can do Anything on my Bench that you can do in a car, Even More in the way of Testing with Scope, Frequency counter and gas volume measurements.
(Other than actually Injecting the Hydrogen into a Motor)
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resident_genius
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 22, 2009 11:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mos- may i have your email? if you dont want to list yours, go on my website and send me a email through there and i'll be able to reply.

website is in signature.

thanks!

-Simon
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mos68x
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 24, 2009 2:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

message sent. With moving we have lost internet until we get it back on...hopefully after the 1st, just borrowing the in-law's right now to check email.
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mos68x
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 28, 2009 5:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I will be at NTC training in California for nearly all of November, so I will be without an internet connection to post anything. It's not like I'll have anything to post anyways since I will be away from my house and too busy with Army stuff. Hopefully by the time I get back home the wife will have most of the rest of the house unpacked so that I can focus on getting my car street legal, then unpacking the garage and then finishing the cell.
I'm hoping that I will get the rest of my DITY $$$$ so that I can order the stuff for a new cell with all of my revisions.
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mos68x
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 23, 2009 1:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I will be home shortly and hopefully I can get the internet on at the house soon. I have my money from the government for my DITY move so now I can finish the car and order all new revision 3 plates for my cell at the house. I'm still trying to decide if I want to go through the effort of cutting all the gaskets or having someone else laser cut them for me(expesive). I am also thinking of getting the toroid kit and building the one for the PWM3G so that I can try to do the resonance in the cell. I still have to get a nitrous plate so that I can put it in the motor too.
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mos68x
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 23, 2009 2:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

res, check your email
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mos68x
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 26, 2009 6:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, I have a nitrous plate in the mail, to show up on friday morning along with all my exhaust parts. There always seems to be something in the way of getting this project finished, which now is Christmas shopping for the family. I may have to wait until I'm out in Afghanistan or afterwards at the latest. I will try to get the plates in the next couple months though since I really want to do some testing on the cell BEFORE I leave. With the nitrous plate I can at least put the cell that I have already built in the car and see some results while I'm getting the new cell made.
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mos68x
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 16, 2009 10:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have had the nitrous plate in hand for a while now but with other unfinished projects and the holidays I have not had time to play with this cell on the car. With the trouble this carburetor has given me in it's really lousy mpg I think this would be a good chance to start implementing the hydroxy onto this motor. I will have to find my timing light though so that I can see what my timing is right now and to set it to where it needs to be when I put the hydroxy on. I have measured the proposed location and the cell will fit without a problem so I'm thinking of trying to fit the cell into the car and seeing how much it will effect this car's mpg.
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mos68x
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 21, 2009 7:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I need some help with the tuning on this PWM3G board. I started to work on the tuning as per the instructions by turning the PW on channel 1 fully clockwise, but the screw keeps turning. Is this normal or is there supposed to be a stop in it?
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mos68x
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 21, 2009 8:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok, I have them tuned as best as possible. Unfortunately it looks like I'll have to reset the tuning everytime I need to change my settings for the pulse width.

I'm still not getting lights on the channels by the MOSFET's though, anyone have any ideas why?
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mos68x
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 23, 2009 9:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have ordered some new jets and rods for my carburetor so that I can lean it down from where it is right now. The mpg in this thing really sucks right now, it's down at 10.1mpg. It is way less than where it should be with this motor, I should be getting at least 17 or so, even without the hydroxy added to the motor. Right now I'm unable to get the cell into the spot where I want it in the car so once I decide on either 1) getting new fittings and lines to run to the motor, cell, and tank, or 2) getting new bolts for the cell, I will get the cell into the car and start putting the gas in the car. Of course when I do start putting the hydroxy in the motor in large amounts I'll have to get valves that I can control by the throttle and find a way to meter it even across the RPM range so that I can evenly lean out the motor and make it a gradual change to hydroxy. I will also have to figure out a way to keep the motor running at all times so that I can keep the water from freezing until I find a better way to keep that from happening.
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