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mos68x
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Joined: 23 Jul 2006
Posts: 468
Location: Ft Campbell, KY
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 Posted: Sat Mar 14, 2009 4:25 pm Post subject: MOS68X's new sealed/dry cell |
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As I've said in another post, I've come close to getting a new design for a cell, modular cell, finished.
So far the idea is basically taking some 6X6IN plates and putting a PTFE gasket around a 1/4IN of the outside. I have end plates that are 1/2IN thick putting the pressure on the cell to hold it together. For water solution deliver and the gas relief there are 1/4NPT 1/4IN Yor-Lok fittings through stainless tubing. I haven't found a pump yet other than using a carb pump for testing. I have silver solder and high temp flux for soldering some solid core ROMEX wire right into the plate, there is a slot for soldering it in place at a corner.
The only thing I need to get to do a test on this cell is some 1/2-13 bolts and a small tank/bucket. I still have to take my plates to a friends house so I can use my sandblaster and blast the plates and solder the wire to them. Right now I have 10 plates for testing purposes but I will probably only use 2 or 3 for initial testing with high strength KOH/NaOH. I want to determine how many amps will be pulled with just these plates, so I can better guage how many I want to put in the car until I get my electronics in place. |
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mos68x
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Joined: 23 Jul 2006
Posts: 468
Location: Ft Campbell, KY
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| Posted: Sun Mar 22, 2009 1:41 am Post subject: |
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| Well today, amongst other things, I finally managed to get the large thick pressure end plates finished and ready for further installation. I've already sealed and put in place the fittings for the water delivery and the gas removal. I tried blueing them last night but the gun blue wasn't working on them. Went back to try again this morning and nearly got into trouble. |
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mos68x
Regular Poster
Joined: 23 Jul 2006
Posts: 468
Location: Ft Campbell, KY
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| Posted: Fri Mar 27, 2009 4:19 am Post subject: |
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Got some 1/2-13 bolts a couple days ago so I assembled the cell, just to mock it up. I still need to cut the gasket material out of the center, but that won't take long to do.
I have also FINALLY managed to get something to work that has eluded me for a while, soldering stainless steel!! I was working with an extra plate I had sitting around and have been trying to get it to solder for the last couple days. I finally got it to work today, and that was even without the silver solder. With silver solder it is a lot easier. I couldn't get it done with the "little" soldering iron I had, I had to get a big gun to make it work. I hope to have the plates blasted this weekend and the wires soldered to them immediately afterwards. Perhaps I'll be lucky enough to get some production and test results early next week, or next weekend. I do think that I will be getting some more plates sometime soon though since I have finally gotten the soldering figured out. The only thing that will be a challenge will be the conditioning of the plates now, or rather, my patience to not turn it up to max. |
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resident_genius
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Joined: 20 May 2006
Posts: 607
Location: New jersey
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mos68x
Regular Poster
Joined: 23 Jul 2006
Posts: 468
Location: Ft Campbell, KY
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| Posted: Sun Mar 29, 2009 1:21 am Post subject: |
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Tried to sandblast the rest of the plates today while I was at a friends house that is using my bench and blaster, but after blasting one plate I did a test and couldn't get the solder to stick very well. So the only thing I can do is to adjust fire, redsign the plates slightly and continue with spade terminals instead. My only real concern is still going to be how get the power from the toroid without getting things too hot.
I will take pictures of everything as soon as I am assembling everything. |
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chemelec
Regular Poster
Joined: 23 Jan 2005
Posts: 631
Location: B.C. Canada
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| Posted: Sun Mar 29, 2009 8:50 am Post subject: |
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| mos68x wrote: | Tried to sandblast the rest of the plates today while I was at a friends house that is using my bench and blaster, but after blasting one plate I did a test and couldn't get the solder to stick very well. So the only thing I can do is to adjust fire, redsign the plates slightly and continue with spade terminals instead. My only real concern is still going to be how get the power from the toroid without getting things too hot.
I will take pictures of everything as soon as I am assembling everything. |
Silver Solder with a Good Flux will solder Stainless Steel.
_________________
If you Email Me, the Word "ELECTRONIC" MUST appear in the Subject Line.
My website is:
http://www3.telus.net/chemelec |
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mos68x
Regular Poster
Joined: 23 Jul 2006
Posts: 468
Location: Ft Campbell, KY
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| Posted: Sun Mar 29, 2009 6:22 pm Post subject: |
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| chemelec wrote: | | mos68x wrote: | Tried to sandblast the rest of the plates today while I was at a friends house that is using my bench and blaster, but after blasting one plate I did a test and couldn't get the solder to stick very well. So the only thing I can do is to adjust fire, redsign the plates slightly and continue with spade terminals instead. My only real concern is still going to be how get the power from the toroid without getting things too hot.
I will take pictures of everything as soon as I am assembling everything. |
Silver Solder with a Good Flux will solder Stainless Steel. |
I know that it will but for some reason it won't work for me and I'm not sure what I'm doing wrong. I am trying to use the Harris High Temp Black flux, and I'm using the Solder-It Silver solder paste. When I use the big soldering gun on the flux it just dries it out, I don't think that it gets hot enough for what this flux needs since it is technically a brazing flux which is a much higher temp than simple soldering. The only other thing that I can try is to get the silver solder rods and a torch and do it that way instead. The biggest reason that I was trying to solder the plates in place was because of clearance between the plates for spade terminals. I am planning on only having .020-.025 between plates and that would not have enough room between alternated plates for the spade terminals. With solid wires soldered directly to the plates it would be easier to make room for the insulation that it would be for an entire spade terminal.
I'm just frustrated with this process with as much as I've been messin with it, perhaps I'll try again in a few days. |
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mos68x
Regular Poster
Joined: 23 Jul 2006
Posts: 468
Location: Ft Campbell, KY
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| Posted: Sun Mar 29, 2009 6:36 pm Post subject: |
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| resident_genius wrote: | | you need updated project page and pictures my friend! its good to see your progress, but visuals are priceless! |
I don't know why it isn't showing up on the top of the project pages, but I did add a couple pictures before you posted. Just thought I'd tell you so you can look. The only thing that I have post right now are the end plates, maybe when I get home I'll upload more pictures. Like I said, my biggest hurdle is the electrical connection to each plate, so until I can sort that problem out I may not post many pictures. |
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mos68x
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Joined: 23 Jul 2006
Posts: 468
Location: Ft Campbell, KY
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chemelec
Regular Poster
Joined: 23 Jan 2005
Posts: 631
Location: B.C. Canada
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| Posted: Wed Apr 01, 2009 8:45 am Post subject: |
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| mos68x wrote: | | chemelec wrote: | | mos68x wrote: | Tried to sandblast the rest of the plates today while I was at a friends house that is using my bench and blaster, but after blasting one plate I did a test and couldn't get the solder to stick very well. So the only thing I can do is to adjust fire, redsign the plates slightly and continue with spade terminals instead. My only real concern is still going to be how get the power from the toroid without getting things too hot.
I will take pictures of everything as soon as I am assembling everything. |
Silver Solder with a Good Flux will solder Stainless Steel. |
I know that it will but for some reason it won't work for me and I'm not sure what I'm doing wrong. I am trying to use the Harris High Temp Black flux, and I'm using the Solder-It Silver solder paste. When I use the big soldering gun on the flux it just dries it out, I don't think that it gets hot enough for what this flux needs since it is technically a brazing flux which is a much higher temp than simple soldering. The only other thing that I can try is to get the silver solder rods and a torch and do it that way instead. The biggest reason that I was trying to solder the plates in place was because of clearance between the plates for spade terminals. I am planning on only having .020-.025 between plates and that would not have enough room between alternated plates for the spade terminals. With solid wires soldered directly to the plates it would be easier to make room for the insulation that it would be for an entire spade terminal.
I'm just frustrated with this process with as much as I've been messin with it, perhaps I'll try again in a few days. |
Silver Solder is Available in Numerous Hardness ranges.
Each of these, also Require Different MELTING TEMPERATURES.
I Usually get a Medium Temperatue Silver Solder.
And MOST Silver Solders Require a Propane Torch to Melt them.
Not a Soldering Iron.
(The Hardest One, Requires a Oxy/Acetlyne torch.)
First, Clean the spot on the Metal, So its Bright in Color.
Second, Apply the Silver Solder Flux to the area.
Than, Heat the Metal from the Opposite Side and as the Metal Aproaches Redness, Apply the Silver Solder to where you put the Flux, And it Should Melt and Stick.
(Applying the Heat from the Opposite Side, Helps Prevent Surface OXIDATION, which can result in a poor solder connection.)
_________________
If you Email Me, the Word "ELECTRONIC" MUST appear in the Subject Line.
My website is:
http://www3.telus.net/chemelec |
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SeaMonkey
Regular Poster
Joined: 09 Aug 2007
Posts: 375
Location: Chula Vista, California
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| Posted: Wed Apr 01, 2009 8:28 pm Post subject: High Temp Soldering |
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Very well done explanation Gary!
Has anyone attempted 'capacitive discharge' spot welding of wires to the plates? |
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mos68x
Regular Poster
Joined: 23 Jul 2006
Posts: 468
Location: Ft Campbell, KY
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| Posted: Thu Apr 02, 2009 2:39 am Post subject: |
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| chemelec wrote: | Silver Solder is Available in Numerous Hardness ranges.
Each of these, also Require Different MELTING TEMPERATURES.
I Usually get a Medium Temperatue Silver Solder.
And MOST Silver Solders Require a Propane Torch to Melt them.
Not a Soldering Iron.
(The Hardest One, Requires a Oxy/Acetlyne torch.)
First, Clean the spot on the Metal, So its Bright in Color.
Second, Apply the Silver Solder Flux to the area.
Than, Heat the Metal from the Opposite Side and as the Metal Aproaches Redness, Apply the Silver Solder to where you put the Flux, And it Should Melt and Stick.
(Applying the Heat from the Opposite Side, Helps Prevent Surface OXIDATION, which can result in a poor solder connection.) |
Thanks for the explenation, I'll try that instead. I do have a torch...somewhere, if I can find it I'll use it. That was part of my problem though I guess, I was applying heat to the side that I was trying to solder, not the opposite side. The only torch I have is a MAPP/OXY one so hopefully that works. Besides, I think that the flux I bought is supposed to work with torches anyways. |
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mos68x
Regular Poster
Joined: 23 Jul 2006
Posts: 468
Location: Ft Campbell, KY
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| Posted: Thu Apr 02, 2009 11:47 pm Post subject: |
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| chemelec wrote: | Silver Solder is Available in Numerous Hardness ranges.
Each of these, also Require Different MELTING TEMPERATURES.
I Usually get a Medium Temperatue Silver Solder.
And MOST Silver Solders Require a Propane Torch to Melt them.
Not a Soldering Iron.
(The Hardest One, Requires a Oxy/Acetlyne torch.)
First, Clean the spot on the Metal, So its Bright in Color.
Second, Apply the Silver Solder Flux to the area.
Than, Heat the Metal from the Opposite Side and as the Metal Aproaches Redness, Apply the Silver Solder to where you put the Flux, And it Should Melt and Stick.
(Applying the Heat from the Opposite Side, Helps Prevent Surface OXIDATION, which can result in a poor solder connection.) |
Which type of solder is that? I have the paste type that I have been using, but I ordered that acid core solid solder. Would rosin core work the same? Or do I have to get solid core solder, no acid or rosin? |
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mos68x
Regular Poster
Joined: 23 Jul 2006
Posts: 468
Location: Ft Campbell, KY
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| Posted: Fri Apr 03, 2009 1:29 am Post subject: |
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| Pictures are posted and updated, at least as much I want to do right now. Since the program lists it in order by filename I'll have to take them down at some point and rename them and put them back up in order of build since I was taking pictures as I was thinking of stuff to do. |
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chemelec
Regular Poster
Joined: 23 Jan 2005
Posts: 631
Location: B.C. Canada
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| Posted: Fri Apr 03, 2009 9:08 am Post subject: |
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| mos68x wrote: | | Which type of solder is that? I have the paste type that I have been using, but I ordered that acid core solid solder. Would rosin core work the same? Or do I have to get solid core solder, no acid or rosin? |
Paste Type? Heaven only knows what that is?
Rosin Core in Silver Solder? I Don't think so!
I Suggest to find a Good Supplier that can give you Proper Information on the different Silver solders and flux.
Usually they are a "Silver Solder Wire", with No flux Core.
And the Flux is Seperate and Acid Based.
I have only found two types of flux for silver solder.
One flux is a White Paste, and the Other is a Clear Liquid.
I find the White Paste to be better.
_________________
If you Email Me, the Word "ELECTRONIC" MUST appear in the Subject Line.
My website is:
http://www3.telus.net/chemelec |
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