How are people interfacing hydrogen boosters with vehicles?

[phantomcow2]

I am in hte process of making an electrolysis based hydrogen boost system for my Honda Accord. I'm slowly machining parts to make a Stan meyer fuel cell setup, but that's well into the future.
My understanding is that the hydrogen gas which has been generated, is mixed with the air intake to combine with the fuel mixture.
HOw have people physically done this? Is it running a hose from the electrolysis chamber and joining it to a drilled hole in the air intake?

Or does one quite literally put the electrolysis unit in series with the air intake hose?

[neukin]

Iv not done this yet but i think putting a barb on your intake after the filter will work fine. If your able to increase voltage as throttle increases it would be best so you can increase hho as engine requires more air so the mix is more equal.

[neukin]

found this

I suggest you to use bigger diameter bubbler container. Or use the same bubbler container, place the adjustable valve between cell and intake manifold. Adjust the valve to create just enough vaccum to pull amount of gas produced from your electrolyser. If use soft plastic bottle as bubbler, if too much of vaccum from manifold, the bottle shrinks and vice versa.

[Maintenanceman]

Once again please be VERY carefull,you are asking for more problems than benefiet by trying to "Boost" your vehicle.Standard ICE engines WILL NOT benefeit from hho boosting unless the computer is Reflashed and propper ignition timing and fuel/air mixture curves are installed in place of the OEM flash program on the chip in the vehicle.This is a FACT ! I got to learn the hard way this summer by frying the boat motori had a booster hooked up to !Your Engine timing is the most crucial of these aspects as this is when the fuel will ignite in the cylinder .Hho burns ALOT faster than Gas and in turn your timing will have to be at 20 or so degrees ATD,to benefiet from the power in the Hho. There are other threads discussing this here on the forums.I am not trying to discourage you from expirementing,just dont wanna see another 4 cyl ICE taken to the junkyard hehe, until then Good Luck with your expirimenting!!

[Maintenanceman]

Another note,most spark systems on vehicles ADVANCE timing as RPM increase,the opposite will need to take place with hho,your timing will have to get nearer TDC the higher the RPM essentially retarding as RPM increases rather than advancing,food for thought!

[Maintenanceman]

Lol! I almost forgot to state that 90 % of vehicles manufactured post 1986 have a computer controlled spark system!

[phantomcow2]

I have studied this pretty extensively now. I know that the booster alone will not make a huge increase, it comes with electrical modification.
Anybody here heard of the HAFC kit? I was going to buy one, but decided it would be more fun to make it frm scratch (and fits my college budget better!). I spoke to the mechanic over there via phone for a while, and I know how they do it.
For the record, this company guarantees 50% increased fuel economy or money back.... Just as long as their mechanic tunes your system (100 dollars for this service).
I asked what is involved in tuning?

The oxygen sensor readings are adjusted by a "parasite circuit", so that your ECU thinks the mixture is richer than it is. Same with the intake air sensor, the computer needs to think that the intake air is 20 degrees warmer than it is. Coolant temperature is the same deal, warmer than it is.

This is to that it injects less fuel to compensate for the better combustion properties of hydrogen enriched gasoline vapor. Also, anybody seen the ROy McAllister "Hydrogen engine" series on youtube? He talks a bit about this, and takes the camera man for a ride in his hydrogen enriched video.

According to the mechanic from HAFC, timing can and should be brought 2-4 degrees closer to TDC. They note that engines actually run cooler with this installe.d

My friend is an electrical engineering major, so I've got all the electronics covered .

[phantomcow2]

Oh,
What do people think about putting the unit in series with the existing air intake? I have an AEM short air intake now. This means I would buy an el-cheapo pipe set (no way I am cutting into teh AEM!!). The electrolysis chamber is placed after the filter.
So the vacuum that sucks in the outside air is also sucking in the hydrogen directly.
I like the idea of controlling the flow of current to the electrolysis chamber based on load. Otherwise I would definitely have concerns about having an inconsistent mixture.

[Maintenanceman]

In my humble opinion i believe that the best way to run hho is to use a LPG carburation system with a steady flow of gas and let the special diaphram carb deliver the fuel like a forklift engine.That way as an alternative to hho you could have 2 different chip programs for a backup fuel system in case of lack of hho. It would be easier to control a steady flow of gas to a regulator in this case the carb itself.Check that route out i believe there are places you can buy an LPG conversion kit for your vehicle and it comes with a caburator and regulator etc..just and idea i thought id toss out there for pondering....

[Maintenanceman]

Oh, i forgot to mention any and all ICE's can be converted to run LPG!

[mrgalleria]

Aloha,
In response to your original question- I have a 90 chevy 350 extra long van with a small booster that gets current by running off of the headlight ground wires. It makes very little hydrogen, so I ran a 1/8" line direct from the top of the booster to the vacuum fitting behind the carb on the intake manifold.
Other mods included putting on an electric fan, and removed air filter and put large capacitor in power wire to coil (see Dingle's method), removed cat and shortened exhaust.
After installing the booster, I noticed idle speed lowered. I attribute this to increased idle rpm torque (no vacuum leaks). I have noticed a nice power increase with each mod, no mpg results yet though. The biggest change noticed was from removing air filter and adding booster-electric fan. For those who have tried, adding even a very small amount of hydrogen enhances combustion of gas. If your adding a small amount, there should be no need to change timing, etc. I actually enjoy driving the van more now with the added power, as formerly it was pretty doggedly running.
Bill

[phantomcow2]

I won't complain if I get any extra power .

My setup consists of all stainless steel washers interlocking with a 1/8" space between them. I put my multimeter to it, an it seems more than willing to pull 10amps. I had a pretty nice stream of bubbles coming out from my 1/4" OD hose.

What do you mean by "Booster fan"? Is this putting a fan inline with the air intake?


As far as getting more mpg, or just about anything with cars, my take is this:

Cars today are far more complicated than they were 20 years ago. In order to get something like more mpg, you can't just replace one piece of the system. It's just like adding an air intake for more power, it won't really do that much just by itself. You have to go down the system and modify/replace each piece of the puzzle.

Hydrogen alone won't really increase your mileage, although theoretically it makes sense. Your fuel injection system will just end up dumping more fuel into the mixture to compensate for the hydrogen being added. Because of the extra volatility of hydrogen enriched gasoline vapor, you can theoretically run a leaner mixture; more mpg. But your car doesn't know that, and wasn't designed for it. So you need to fool your car into thinking the mixture is richer than it is. That's why I am getting my EE friend to help me out with making a circuit that attenuates the signals of the air intake temperature, oxygen sensor, and coolant temp sensor.

[Maintenanceman]

I Agree that there is more " power" involved with "boosting" but think about each molecule individually h2 and petro,they both have different flash points and have different ways of releasing the stored energy in eachother. H2 releases its energy MUCH faster than petro.Therefore as an engine is designed to run on petro the entire crank cam etc are set up for this.There will be a possibility that the energy released by the H2 might actually hinder the burning of the petro/air vapor in the cylinder.causing pre-ignition and believe me from my own experience, MAOR INTERNAL ENGINE FAILURE!What i believed to have happened is that the "oil film" that keeps the bearing lubed is not designed for the extra force that the H2 introduces to the internal engine parts.And H2 has alot more force in it than gasoline.I just completed a rebuild on the boat i fried this summer...the block was not salvageable...all of the bearings in the cam and crank were severely damaged as well. I am not saying it CANNOT be done...juast take great care when playing with this energy...as veryone should...i learned the hard way ..was just offering my input! Like "They" say take what you want and leave the rest!!As always good luck with your experimenting!!


Motor was a 2.3L Ford Marine Engine with an OMC Sterndrive.
Top speed w/o hho 41 mph via gps.
Top speed w/ hho 53 mph via gps.
Time lapsed after installation of booster till spontaneous failure...3 months and i have personally maintained this engine since it was new.oil changes and regular maintenance every season!
Pre installation of engine booster was 4 yrs of absolutely NO problems whatsoever.

[phantomcow2]

I understand that hydrogen addition can cause some potential serious problems. I am asking for the advice of some engineers at my work place, and it looks like my setup will allow for very tight control over how much hydrogen is injected.

Adding any significant amount of hydrogen to the mixture will require advancing timing

I have already considered this. RIght now, I am just getting my plumbing figured out so that I have a consistent mixture of hydrogen under all loads.

[Maintenanceman]

Good to hear!! I just dont want anyone to make the same mistakes i have is all i was tryin to say...i applied mine at the base of the Carb on the intake manifold, it was my thinking to mix the h2 with the already vaporized fuel mixture,perhaps i was utilizing to much h2 ? I really got some Mid-High Rpm power though! But like i stated it came at a heavy price