Argon Tube Power Source

[AbbaRue]

In 1995,96 a couple from Concord, Ontario, Canada filed 3 Patents on a device they had constructed. The US. Patent numbers are:
#5,416,391 #5,449,989 #5,502,354
This device uses an argon filled vacuum tube with Aluminum plates,spaced 2 to 6 cm apart. An input of a couple hundred volts DC causes a discharge to take place between the Aluminum plates. This discharge produces an AC current that has an amperage higher then the input DC current.
If you study the 3 patents, this couple has done intensive measurements on the input versus output, and found it typically puts out 5 times as much power as what is put in.

This device caught my attention about 4 months ago, so I gathered up the things I needed and tried building my own Argon discharge tube.
I bought a vacuum pump off ebay for about $150, I leased an argon welding tank from BOC welding supplies for $65 a year, and had it filled for $50.
I then built my first test chamber using an empty pickel jar with a toilet supply tube tap mounted into the lid, and insulated wires passed through the lid. Sealed everything with silicon at first but found 5 min epoxy works better. And I tested this thing out.
I connected a 40 watt light bulb in series with the input DC as a current limiter so if something shorts out the bulb just lights up to warn me and keeps my diodes from getting fried. The circuit uses a 3.5 mfd AC motor capacitor connected in series to stop the DC input from getting into the AC output. I connected another 40 watt bulb to the AC output on the other side of the AC cap. For my power supply I used a 35 volt transformer, connected to a variac. Then I feed the variac output into a microwave transformer which steps up the voltage 18x. This gives me a variable AC power supply from 0 to 800 volts. I use 4x 400 volt 3 Amp diodes from radio shack connected as a bridge rectifier.
I run a plastic hose from the argon cylinder to the pump, with a 'T' in the center of the hose were I have mounted a rubber balloon, high tech stuff. I turn on the cyliner and fill the balloon part way, and then I use a tap to draw as much argon as I need from the balloon, works great as a pressure control valve.
Testing this out with the 40 watt bulb connected to the output, I got the 40 watt bulb to light to full brightness, while the input limiting bulb barely light up. This convinced me to continue this project.
So what I did next is construct a new form of argon vacuum tube, using 3/4 inch copper tubing, with an aluminum eaves trough spike mounted down the center. Soldered the tube together and used a pvc pipe cap to mound the spike down the center. Just drilled a hole through the center of the pvc cap and epoxyed the spike into it. Then epoxyed the cap onto the end of the 3/4 inch copper pipe. Used a peice of wodden dowel with a hole through it to keep the spike from touching the copper tubing at the other end. The holes for the spike are 1/4 inch for anyone wanting to try building there own.
With this new tubes I got some interesting results, I will post more on this in another posting, but for now this is a good introduction.

Till later AbbaRue

[AbbaRue]

Hello Again:
I had to prepare a website so I could upload some diagrams.
I'm new around here and I didn't know I couldn't just upload pictures to this forum.
So here is a web link to my New Argon Tube Website.

http://www.mnsi.net/~hwlenter/ARGON/ARGON1.htm

The first picture is a schematic for how to connect the tube.
I use a 40 watt bulb as a current limiter so I know if I get a short if it lights up real bright, and it protects my diodes from getting fried too.
The next two pictures are measurements I took of input vs output.

The discharge tube puts out more current according the load put on it.
I started with a 40 watt bulb across the output but then I tried a 100 watt bulb, and found that the output current went up. I found that no matter how large a load I put across the output, the current input to the argon tube stays the same.
I found that I got 50% over unity with one 100 watt bulb connected, and I got 100 % over unity with two 100 watt bulbs connected to the output.
I then connected 600 watts of load and got over 500 % over unity.

I am very exited about these results and wanted to share them with others on this forum. I tried to sign up a few weeks ago but didn't get the activation email, so I couldn't post here. Finally got activated today.
I'm hoping someone else on this forum builds one of these and then we can exchange information, and improve on the design.

With 600 watt load I get an output of 1.25 amps AC with an input of about 0.2 amps DC. I tried hooking up a 1000 watt baseboard heater to the tube and I still got 1.25 amps of AC output, so it appears that 1.25 amps is the about the maximum one tube can put out.
I know this is a very quick posting, and I hope to keep everyone informed with more detailed information later. But for now I just want to say I typically measure over 6 times as much wattage output then I put in.

This is an exciting moment for me.
Till Later AbbaRue.

[HydroControl]

Thanks for the patent links and the information on your experiment. I have never ran across this before. Very interesting. Looks to be easy to do. Since I have a vacuum pump system and argon at work I will have to try this.

Thanks.
Tom

[HydroControl]

I was just thinking that this may point to the driection that Tesla was using for his fuel-less car. I remember reading that the car used a control box of around 12 vacuum tubes of his own design which was powered by a standard type car battery of his time period. Maybe they were really Argon tubes. They would look just like vacuum tubes. Just a thought.

Thanks again for sharing. Anyone else here looking at this ?

Later,
Tom

[chemelec]

I would like to know Why are you measuring the Input DC Voltage and Current?
It isn't really DC Anyway. It is Rectified AC, Totally Unfiltered, so it contains a Very High amount of AC Power in addition to the DC.

The Real Input is 60 Hz AC.
Why not measure this, than compare it to the output?

Additionally, it is Input Wattage verses Output Wattage that is really what should be considered. Not Just Current.
And to measure that you need a True RMS Watt Meter.

Gary

[HydroControl]

I would have to agree with Gary. Measurement equipment and location can make a huge difference. A real comparision would be to do the measurements with out the argon tube and then with the argon tube. If you are getting OU with out the argon tube it would likely point to measurement error or equipment error. Still it is very interesting and something that I have access to the parts to duplicate. Maybe after the PMM that I am working on.

Later,
Tom

[Orange_Crusader]

From what AbbaRue said about wattage, it seems that there is a significant difference between input and output wattage (40W bulb test). My only concerns come from the input being DC and output AC, and only having those two to compare, and that perhaps the argon gas is being used up, however slowly, in this process. Comparing wattage helps, though. How long have you run any of your tubes, and did you notice any drop in output over your tests, either after several tests on the same tube, or after a certain time of running. I'll have to look up those patents myself, maybe even take a drive down to Concord myself to see if I can find the couple that patented this (yes, it's a bit far away, but I would be interested) and see what they've done.

I've never seen anything about this either, but all measurement concerns aside, I'm quite interested. Seeing how easy this seems to build (can get argon from school shop class, as well as vacuum pump), I'm thinking about adding this to the long list of projects to do.

[chemelec]

Looking at that Circuit again, That Argon tube is probably just acting as a Simple, Shunt Voltage regulator. Just like a Neon Bulb would also do, If you had a Large one.

As to measuring the True RMS Power, there is a fairly simple RMS Watt-meter in my projects at:

Seasons Greetings to All.....Take care, Gary

[HydroControl]

Note what AbbaRue said here..
[quote]Testing this out with the 40 watt bulb connected to the output, I got the 40 watt bulb to light to full brightness, while the input limiting bulb barely light up. This convinced me to continue this project. [/quote]

Looking at the results we have a high voltage and low current input being converted to a lower voltage and higher current. The input 40 watt bulb will only light with higher current and will not care too much about the voltage. The 40 watt output bulb is getting bright because it is getting more current so looking at brightness of each bulb is not the solution. Looking at measurement points and equipment would be more useful.

Gary, I like your RMS Watt-meter. I will have to build me one.

Later,
Tom

[AbbaRue]

Hello Again
I've been out of town visiting relatives for the past few days, just got home.
Anyway, I have made measurements of the AC input as well as the DC input.
And I measure the AC input at slightly lower then the DC.
Eg. at 400 volts AC input on that side of the bridge rectifier,
I get about 420 volts DC on the output side of the the bridge rectifier.
I have been using 6 meters to do measurements, switching them around, to compare measurements.
I am using 2 analog meters and 4 digital meters.
I have kept the argon tube runing for over 3 hours at a time while I do these measurements.
I also have 3 different argon tubes I made. The two charts preasently on my website where made with the worst one of the three. I say worst because it slowly loses its vacuum over time, as I run it. That is why I got the fluctuations in the AC output of the tube.
When I first vacuum the tube out with fresh argon in it, the AC output voltage is very low, and it gradually increases as the level of vacuum decreases. The highest voltages, and the highest OU measurements I get are just before the vacuum gets to low to sustain the discharges.
The order the chart measurements are in is in accordance with the AC output voltage I was getting, a closer look at the charts will tell you this.
This is the reason for me using this tube, because I wanted to find the most efficiant level of vacuum for these tubes.
The correa's measurements indicate they got the best results at about 0.8 torr, my vacuum pump is capable of 0.005 torr, so my pump is capable of much lower vacuum then what is ideal, and I don't have a highly sensitive vacuum gauge, like they had, so I can't regulate the exact vacuum I want.
I just pump it down and then add small amounts of argon back into the tubes until I get the highest wattage output vs input.
Sorry I don't have better measureing equipment.
But I am a very strong skeptic, and I don't trust measurements anyway.
I am working on getting the tubes to run themselves, once I can do this I will be convinced that this is truly over unity, but not until, I don't care how much the measurements say I am getting OU. With the better tubes my measurements are typically reading more then 6 times the output wattage to input wattage. But like I said, I don't trust measuring instruments.

In studying the circuit thus far I see problems in trying to get one tube to run itself, but I should be able to get the output from one tube to run another, and then have the second tube run the first. Looks like this might be workable. The high OU measurements I am getting keep me going, and I will keep experimenting.
It would be awsome to have someone else build some of these tubes, and do some experimenting of there own, so we can compare notes.
So far I have been trying using voltage multipiers, to bring the AC output back up to the DC input I need, but it looks like there is to much loss or time delay, in the voltage multiplier circuits I've been using.
I think maybe a simple stepup transformer might work better. So if anyone builds there own tubes, maybe you can get hold of a 1:3 stepup transformer, I don't have one yet. trippleing the AC output should bring it up plenty high enough to run another tube.
I will be very excited, once I see these things continue running while disconnected from any external power source.
The correa's used gel cell batteries connected in series, to give them the voltage they needed, and they used the device to charge another set of gel cells. And by compareing the charge lost with the charge gained, they found a 1:5 difference between the two, but I can't afford a bunch of gel cells of my own, so I have to use the rectified AC.

Till later, happy experimenting Harold.

[chemelec]

Harrold, If you want a Proper, Independant Evaluation of this.
Mail me one of your better argon tubes.

Sorry but I don't have the ability to actually produce this argon tube.
But I Do have all the other parts as well as All the equipment to truely evaluate this circuit.

Take care......Gary

[HydroControl]

Harold,
Thanks for the additional information. Do you think making the tube using two pieces of aluminum tubing (one inside the other) would work any better ?
I suspect surface area may help the effect.


For those that enjoy experimenting have a look at Mr Naudin latest experiment involving 'free energy'. I suspect that Gary will find this very interesting.

http://jnaudin.free.fr/seike/gseav3.htm

Later,
Tom

[AbbaRue]

Hello again
One of my good tubes is made from 1 inch aluminum pipe with the aluminum spike down the center. The only difference between it and the copper tube is the aluminum tube can be used with the pipe connected to negative instead of the spike. IF you connect the copper pipe to the negative the tube won't work right. Something about aluminum makes it work best, as the negative.
So remember that, if you plan on building one, the aluminum spike has to be connected to negative. The negative plate is the one that slowly errodes away over time, the positive just gets more aluminum deposited on it from the negative.
I found that a 1:2 ratio transformer will work best for stepping up the AC before rectifying it to run a second tube off it. The transformer should be designed with a nice high impedance. I tried using a 120volt to 40 volt transformer in reverse, and even though it did work, it drained the output from the first tube drastically even without a load on the output of the transformer.
I had a 100 watt bulb connected to the output of the first tube, as well as the transformer. I then connected the output of the transformer to another tube, and it had enough voltage to get the tube to discharge. I used the output from the second tube, to run another 100 watt bulb. Both bulbs were light up, but not very brightly. I attributed this to the low impedance of the transformer. Before connecting the transformer, the 100 watt bulb is at full brightness, but as soon as I connect the transformer the bulb goes a lot dimmer. and when I connect the output of the transformer to another tube, the bulb goes even dimmer. I think I could get this thing to run itself if I could get a high impedance stepup transformer for it.
I tried another experiment today, I tried running a cold fuson reactor from it, the tungsten did arc but the tube would only put out 1350 mA, and the cold fuson reactor needs about 3500 mA to run properly. Maybe the output of 3 of these tubes would do a nice job.
What I don't like about the cold fuson reactor is, the tungsten rod gets erroded away to quickly, so even if it gets 2.5 times more power, the cost of the tungsten would be higher then the savings on electricity.
Anyway, I'm still experimenting, looking for a nice high impedance transformer now. If anyone has any other ideas, I might not know about, please let me know.
I also took a look at the new project Mr. Naudin is working on and found it to be very interesting, but he didn't do a current check on the higher voltage output. There are many ways to step up voltage, but the current goes down, if it also has a higher current output, it could run itself.
I will be keeping an eye on that device for the next while too.

Till later. Harold.

[chemelec]

[HydroControl]