Motorcycle on HHO

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Motorcycle on HHO

Postby BroBob1 » Fri Aug 01, 2008 1:58 pm

Well, I got some positive results back after much tinkering! On a 1998 Suzuki 1500 LC I ended up setting the gen @ 8-9 Amps, 400 mlpm, (Smack type) and the HHO feed lines are right at the inlet to each carb. I went from a best of 35 MPG to 43 MPG.
My only concern is the draw on the Alternator of the bike
While running the bike I have a digital volt meter hooked up and I observed as the gen heats up the reading gets as low as 12.5 Volts! Is this too much of a draw? I don't know? When I switch off the gen it reads in the high 13's, it even hit 14 volts for a few seconds. Should I install a PWM? Maybe?
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Postby Dan Dan » Fri Aug 01, 2008 2:33 pm

Good job!

Where did you mount the booster itself?

I wouln't bother with a PWM. You can easily get away with 12.5 V on the reading. This kind of voltage loss is normal.
Wake up America.
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Postby BroBob1 » Fri Aug 01, 2008 2:56 pm

Here is a link to some pictures, I also did a 1990 Yamaha V-Max with sidecar.
http://www.fuel-saver.org/Forum/showthread.php?tid=835
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Postby Pinhead » Fri Aug 01, 2008 4:57 pm

Dan Dan wrote:Good job!

Where did you mount the booster itself?

I wouln't bother with a PWM. You can easily get away with 12.5 V on the reading. This kind of voltage loss is normal.


This is incorrect. This kind of voltage loss is NOT normal if you are measuring across your battery terminals. If the system voltage has dropped that much, either your alternator or your wiring harness will quickly burn up. This is the only reason I've not installed a booster on my bike as of yet. The electrics on most motorcycles are borderline at best; any additional draw on the system will begin to destroy parts.
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Postby BroBob1 » Fri Aug 01, 2008 5:49 pm

Pinhead wrote:
Dan Dan wrote:Good job!

Where did you mount the booster itself?

I wouln't bother with a PWM. You can easily get away with 12.5 V on the reading. This kind of voltage loss is normal.


This is incorrect. This kind of voltage loss is NOT normal if you are measuring across your battery terminals. If the system voltage has dropped that much, either your alternator or your wiring harness will quickly burn up. This is the only reason I've not installed a booster on my bike as of yet. The electrics on most motorcycles are borderline at best; any additional draw on the system will begin to destroy parts.


Yes it's true that this kind of voltage loss is NOT normal, but as far as it burning up quickly, I do not agree! Smack has put 20000 miles on his bike without a problem. I ride this bike in the winter with a full electric heated suit and I have been doing this for years without an issue, and I have been testing 2 bikes for 3 months now with HHO units installed. I DO NOT want to burn up the alternator so I will be careful, but as far as burning it up quickly, that did not happen. I also use an on/off switch and I switch it off whenever I'm in traffic or stopped or going down hill. I don't think we should be so quick to give up on motorcyles, but rather, let's find out how we can make it work!
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Postby BroBob1 » Fri Aug 01, 2008 8:14 pm

Just how much current draw will a motorcycle handle?
Here is some interesting info regarding how much the Gerbings heated clothing is drawing. I was curious about this since I have been using them for some 8 years so i tested them today.
The jacket draws 7 amps
The gloves 2 amps
The pants 4 amps
The socks 2 amps
for a total of 15 amps.
I have and continue to use these on several applications.
First on a 1999 Yamaha 700 snowmobile with Electric Start I used the jacket alone, it worked but it depleted the battery and it would not start with the electric start so I used the pull starter, the battery recharged and I used the jacket intermittently without a problem, and without deleting the battery.
In 2004 I went to a Yamaha RX Warrior snowmobile with a 1000 cc
4 stroke and for 5 years now and over 10K miles I used the complete electric suit minus the gloves (13 amp draw) (handwarmers on sled) without any issues.
I have used the complete electric suit on a 1976 HondaMatic 750 for several years in the winter, on a 2002 Kawasaki Prarie 650,1998 Suzuki 1500, and a 1990 Yamaha V-Max without burning up any alternators or wiring harness. So if anything this time tested draw on all of these different charging systems might tell us that they are tougher than we might think!
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Motorcycle Electrolyzer

Postby SeaMonkey » Fri Aug 01, 2008 9:48 pm

It's on bikes with their limited electrical power availability that the Low Voltage Multiplate Cell is is a hot performer.

The 10 plate Low Voltage configuration isn't prone to overheating like the series plate array (neutral plates) because it uses a higher strength electrolyte for increased efficiency.

A low Voltage Cell driven at 3 Volts / 40 Amperes by means of the SIL40C DC to DC converter will draw about 8.8 Amperes (120+ Watts) from the bike's electrical system. That corresponds to maximum HydrOxy output.

The voltage can be adjusted on the fly to provide whatever current flow you desire, from 5 to 40 Amperes, through the cell as driving conditions change. In fact, it can be adjusted by a pot activated by the throttle for automatic control of HydrOxy output for varying motor rpms.

At 2 Volts / 10 Amperes the unit would draw about 1.8 Amperes from the bike's electrical system.

The SIL40C is very small, highly sophisticated and very efficient. Everything a biker would want. It does need mounting into a suitable enclosure with a few external components in order to make it a stand alone unit. It is designed for use in computer/server systems.

Additionally, the Low Voltage Cells are much easier to maintain and far more reliable than the Series Array of plates. No Overheating!
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Postby BroBob1 » Sat Aug 02, 2008 9:41 am

I am now looking into this unit: http://hydroreactors.com/index_files/Page577.htm
Sea Monkey the Low Voltage unit that you speak of, is that available, or is it a build it yourself?
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Innovations...

Postby SeaMonkey » Sat Aug 02, 2008 9:09 pm

BroBob 1,

The SIL40C series of DC to DC Converters are circuit boards that are produced by Artesyn (Emerson). Mouser Electronics carries them and they cost about $30.00

They are capable of producing any voltage from 0.9 to 5.0 Volts DC at up to 40 Amperes from 12 Volts DC input. The output voltage is varied by means of an external potentiometer.

In order to make them "stand alone" power units they need mounting and external capacitors at both the 12 Volt input and the Low Voltage output. Although they do not produce much heat, it may be a good idea to include a small fan in the enclosure for cooling when installed in a car. On a bike however, all you'd need to do is get some airflow over/through the heatsink (part of the unit) to keep it cool without a fan.


I wish the Hydro-blox (your link) page offered more technical data on the units. If they've completely eliminated any leakage current paths by the molding of the units then they've solved one of the main problems of the series plate array. Sure would be nice to see a pictorial of the internal fabrication.

They do state that the hydroxy output and current draw are very temperature dependent which is a characteristic of the series array that limits its efficiency. In order to keep the units from going into thermal runaway when hot it's necessary to use a weak electrolyte to limit maximum current flow.

The low voltage cell doesn't have those problems because of the highly conductive electrolyte. An added advantage is that the low voltage cell plates are totally immersed in the electrolyte (no leakage paths) so there is plenty of solution to generate hydroxy for extended runs.

It's nice to see that at least one manufacturer is producing a "block" that eliminates some of the problems with the Smack's.
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Postby mrgalleria » Wed Aug 06, 2008 12:16 am

Aloha,
SeaMonkey- When are you going to start a project folder, with photos?
I would really like to see what you are working on.
Bill
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Postby kumaran » Wed Aug 06, 2008 4:03 am

Hi guys,

Hydro Blox is the cheapest hydrogen generator unit which runs on very high efficiency rate so far I've seen in the market. Very well designed. Also the electronic unit plays very important part for fuel injection car. Thumbs up.
Regards,
Kumaran
(Knowledge without action is useless, action without knowledge is foolish)
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Project Folder

Postby SeaMonkey » Wed Aug 06, 2008 9:32 pm

Bill,

It'll be a while yet. Perhaps several more months.

I want to be absolutely certain that the system is completely reliable and that all the data are good.

And, to evaluate pulsing on the low voltage cell. Getting the power transfer/impedance matching optimized. Possibly trying the Boyce approach with the three harmonics properly phased, since consensus is that it's not possible to see an increase in HydrOxy production on such cells.

And, to make it all as simple as possible.
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Postby mrgalleria » Wed Aug 06, 2008 11:46 pm

Aloha,
SeaMonkey- Is there somewhere that the construction details can be found on the low voltage cell (10 plate) you write about? Is it like the 13 plate or 8 plate? As it is low voltage, it would seem that series run plates would not work. If simple to construct, I can build one and post photos.
Sorry if I missed it if it was posted somewhere else before.
Bill
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Ten Plate Cell

Postby SeaMonkey » Thu Aug 07, 2008 4:37 pm

The plates are 3" X 6" stainless, any grade conveniently available.

Five Anodes and Five Cathodes, alternately spaced, as the plates in an auto battery cell are arranged.

Spacing between Cathodes and Anodes is 1/8" to 3/16".

All Cathodes commonly connected to one bus.

All Anodes commonly connected to another bus.

Plate array is totally immersed in electrolyte solution; very deeply if desired for long operational capability.

Cell case is large enough to accommodate the plate array and may be very tall to hold more electrolyte solution.

Electrolyte solution is strong (up to 25%) for increased efficiency.

Current density at each of the plates is low for increased efficiency.

Low Voltage High Current applied to the bus terminals.

DC to DC Converter provides adjustable voltage (2 to 3 Volts)/current (5 to 40 Amperes) to control HydrOxy production.


It would be very nice indeed to have an independent evaluation.

If you'd like to volunteer that would be very beneficial to the group and greatly appreciated.
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Postby mrgalleria » Thu Aug 07, 2008 5:47 pm

Aloha,
SeaMonkey: There is a great forum on the hydro-reactor here- http://hydroreactors.com/smf/index.php?topic=31.0
It should answer all you tech questions.
Looks very good, as Kumaran noted.
I already have a whole bunch of stainless cut 3"x6".
Can build one in the next couple days, will post results with photos.
Bill
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