how much hydrogen (or HHO) would be required anyway?

[hypersoniq]

Let's say we had a 4 cylinder 4 stroke (maybe 3 liters of displacement), how much hydogen would be required to run this motor? are there formulas out there to figure this out?

If each cyl. has a displacement of (for example) 0.6l in a 2.4 liter 4 cyl, then you would need how much @ idle, how much @ 3,000 rpm? what about a 2 stroke?

Is there a place with formulas where I could check them out and make up an excel sheet? google is providing no help...

[mael]

Good question.

And could someone do the same for a 4 - cycle 50 cc engine? - That's what I want to run with an electrolyser or two.

[AlaskaStar]

Well,

If it's any consolation, I had asked this myself, but to find only blank stares.

So.....I took the engine apart, measured EVERY LITTLE PART with a MICROMETER. I measured clearances, port sizes, lift, duration, valve opening, amount of air that can pass without the valve, and with the valve. The valve is the #1 restriction on the incoming air stream of an engine. Think about it.

So after all that. I re-assembled the engine, and ran it. I modified things to give me better data. I found that the maximum power was not at WOT, but rather at 75% to 83% opening of throttle, and that after such point, it didn't change much, other than the computer shutting off the injector pulse and going straight open for the injectors.

I also found that by converting inches of mercury on the gauge to PSI equivalent, the pressure of compression vs combustion, and the velocity of the air, the intake valve restriction, and such forth that the engine only received at best only an 84% air charge during the intake stroke while running.

So with only 84% intake charge, This gave me a good place to start. So off to find a HYDROGEN flow meter. Good luck. I needed one that can operate under vacuum.

Well... needed a better idea. Think of the submerged soda bottle for finding how many LPM your cell makes. Now think MUCH BIGGER. Gigantic. Now I found that I could use a good bit of hydrogen to do this proper, and found that the engine, while only taking in 84% air charge AT BEST, I could seriously lean back the hydrogen when running. Much the same as a diesel would, and found that my engine only consumed about 1.4 CUBIC FEET PER MINUTE while producing ALMOST the equivalent power that it would on Gasoline.

My engine size was 1.6 Liters, 3 valve per cylinder: 2 intakes, 1 exhaust, 4 cylinder, 4 stroke.

For the 2 stroke question: DOUBLE IT. 2 stroke runs 2X the power pulses, and 2X the intake pulses, 2X the compression pulses, and 2X the exhaust pulses per minute per equal RPM, and cylinders. Use a sonic pickup and an oscilloscope to 'listen' to the operation of the engine in real time, and you can see on the scope wave-form the INTAKE, COMPRESSION, POWER, and EXHAUST cycles that the engine makes. This is due to the sounds that everything makes... the whistling of the incoming air, the sudden loading of the crank during compression, the impact of the explosion, and the quick exhaust of the hot gas.

I don't have a chart, but the stuff I found that worked really well was to REMOVE THE THROTTLE. This gives you power. You can run super lean, but when doing so, it sucks up more fuel in the long run due to the minimum required to make the engine even run. Burning the tires is fun....

If you leave the throttle there, wire it shut/ idle position. This will make the metering of the fuel much easier, and you use far less of it. it can peg out the tach with the throttles at IDLE position when you put too much hydrogen in for the air available. This allows you to run using very small amounts of hydrogen.
Not much power in this way, but if you get your fuel for free (which is the goal here for most.....) WHO CARES ABOUT POWER???


If you have variable throttle: Plan on the eternal tweaking of the hydrogen and air fuel mixture. Or set it up like natural gas, and just ball-park it.

I hope this helps you guys out some.

AlaskaStar

[Hybrid]

hypersoniq I read a while back that 125% HHO is equivalent to 100%
of gasoline. As AlaskaStar is saying, a lot of variables & restrictions give
different results. To run a Mild hp, 2.4ltr motor on HHO, you wouldn't
want a long duration cam in it. Longer duration cams create more air
movement through an eng compared to a shorter duration cam in the
same engine. Cam duration, spark timing, eng compression, head
porting, exhaust primery pipe dia & entire exh system, will all determine
how your motor breathes. If you choke the motor to be a comuter rather
than a goer, less HHO will be needed. The more you free the motor up,
the more air/HHO will pass through it. A lot of trial & error testing will be
needed to find how much HHO is needed in each engine size, each car
weight, exhaust system used etc. Realy there is no set answer for you.
Now if you asked a simple question like, how long is a peice of string,
I can answer that one ! The disstance from one end to the middle x2 ;]
Cheers !