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OUPower.com • View topic - Building an Electrolyzer

Building an Electrolyzer

This forum is for discussing anything related to electrolysis and electrolyzer designs.

Postby Orange_Crusader » Wed Aug 17, 2005 12:15 pm

Actually, figuring out how much gas is produced per kilo or pound, or anything if alumimium is very easy, and only takes a few minutes, if you know the reaction. In theory, the NaOH is a catalyst, but it also is slightly used up. I didn't include that for simplicity reasons. From the above posts, I gathered as much:

Al is added to water, and oxidizes. This is the initial reaction. We need 6 moles to be the "base" for this.

3x[2Al + 3H20 --> Al2O3 + 3H2]

That's 18.18g of H2, from 162.2g (162.2mL) of water used up in that one reaction.

Oxidized Al is "eaten" away by the NaOH:

6Al2O3 + 6NaOH --> 6Al + 6O2 + 6Na + 3H2

Converting moles to mass: 6 mol Al2O3= 611.76g , 6 mol NaOH= 40g, 3 mol H2= 6.06g (seems low, but don't worry), 6 mol O2= 192g

But wait, there's also the reactions which release more H2, Al regenerating its oxide layer, and Na reacting to form NaOH again.

2Al + 3H20 --> Al2O3 + 3H2

Remember, we had 6 moles of Al initially, so everything is x3. That's another 18.18 g (9 moles) of H2 released!

And:

4Na + 4H2O --> 4NaOH + 2H2

Again, x1.5 to get equal to 6 initial moles of Na. That's 6.06g of H2 more.

Then the reaction starts over, but this is one complete cycle.

Total H2: 30.3g= 15 moles

An ideal gas (like H2) takes up 24.8L per mole.

24.8(15)

Gives us 372L of H2 gas produced, at 101.3 kPa. Convert that into psi and imperial units yourselves, and figure for higher pressures, lower temps, etc. using the gas laws. That's a lot of gas.

But... The Al, when the oxide layer is gone, will react again to form another oxide layer, which will be eaten again by the NaOH, also newly formed using water. Some Al will be left out of the reaction, from losses of NaOH. Off of a Al block (not the fastest way, but it'll last a longer time), the Al that is "eaten" off will gather on the bottom. What stops the waste Al from reacting again and again with the NaOH, and using up the water? If it doesn't react, it can be gathered, and smelted into more bars or blocks. :)

Edit: Note: That's from 161.88g of Al (not counting the already oxidized layer on it), converted to 611.76g of Al2O3. :)

Edit, Edit: Added inital oxidation reaction. Counting that first one, we have 24 moles of H2, for 595.2L of H2 at SATP. That's if the last oxidation reaction applies, otherwise, we just have 372L. This is all totals, and it'll take a long time to get this much gas. Over a week for a pound (and we have 0.35lb of Al, or 1.35lb of Al2O3), so this could last a while. Divide by number of hours the aparatus is run, water usage (and NaOH usage), and we have gas production per hour. Hopefully, it's high enough Still, that's a ton of gas. All of the above reactions are going on constantly, so yields can change if some created H2 or O2 is used in regenerating the NaOH and Al2O3. :)

Edit, Edit, Edit: I gotta stop thinking of new things to add after submitting it...

But... All this depends on the concentration of NaOH in the water (reaction speed), and the purity of all of the substances involved (aluminium, for example, probably will have a decent amount of contaminants). :)
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Holes in the plates?

Postby eblilly7 » Thu Aug 18, 2005 1:21 am

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Postby thrival » Thu Aug 18, 2005 2:27 am

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Link

Postby JaEnergy » Thu Aug 18, 2005 4:55 pm

johnh

Oh well now...!?? English I would recognize…if the pdf would have opened!?
Thanks though today I got the file!

And my question was about the root web http://www.waterstof.org/ not just the doc…!

Thanks JaE
Change Constant!
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Re: Holes in the plates?

Postby Bob Boyce » Sun Aug 21, 2005 6:33 pm

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Postby Dr Dimento » Sun Aug 21, 2005 6:47 pm

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power supplies

Postby theantler » Sun Sep 04, 2005 11:26 pm

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Postby Bob Boyce » Mon Sep 05, 2005 1:56 am

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Postby adam666 » Tue Sep 06, 2005 8:46 am

hi bob,

what in your opinion is the main advantage of running '60' plates at 130v versus '7' plates 13v?

assuming of course that the 7 plates and 60 plates had the same surface area?

Im guessing you could get the same amount of gas whilst less power / creating less heat?

thanks
Adam
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Postby Bob Boyce » Tue Sep 06, 2005 5:27 pm

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Postby adam666 » Tue Sep 06, 2005 7:11 pm

ok, so you're using about 2.7m2 surface area, with between 1.6 + 2.2v per cell?

the powering might be a problem though...

unless I can find a US inverter to use. or a voltage divider I guess?

would appreciate an email if possible re: inverters

[insert username] @ gmail.com

:)

thanks
Adam
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Postby Bob Boyce » Tue Sep 06, 2005 11:38 pm

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Postby adam666 » Wed Sep 07, 2005 1:18 am

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Postby Bob Boyce » Wed Sep 07, 2005 1:49 am

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chemicalyzer

Postby shine_runner01 » Wed Sep 07, 2005 11:21 am

Loster,

I have gave Electrolysis a break and gave your way a try. It seems to be putting out alot of gas, but it does NOT seem to be flammable for some reason. I am useing strait Sodium Hydroxide in crystal form with water & some scrap Aluminum from a roll that was used for body patching for a truck. Now I don't know how Pure this Aluminum is, so I don't know if the problem lyes there or some where else. If you have any idea's of what may be wrong I'd be greatful.


Thanks

Ian
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