Seamless or welded stainless steel tubes?

[glassGlow]

How critical is it to have 316L seamless stainless steel tubes? My local supplier has 304 welded SS tubes and doesn’t carry anything in seamless. I’m attempting a Stan Meyer reproduction.

Thanks!

[mrgalleria]

Aloha,
I am not an expert on the subject, but I a can relate the following.
I think it depends a lot on the type of electrolosis. The 316 emits less or no residues. If you are using an electrolite, that may release more residues. I think that if you are attempting the low voltage- low amp Meters pulsed voltage, maybe 304 would be OK. Even if it is just to prove principle. When you are successful, you may or may not need to scout out some 316.
Bill

[gregted]

[glassGlow]

[mrgalleria]

Aloha,
Meyers recommends 304 in one of his patents, because it is non reactive to hydrogen, oxygen, and water.
Bill

[FarrahDay]

With all due respects Mr G, I should not take too much notice of what Meyer said.

If there is a reason to use one type of ss over another it's not because 304 doesn't react to oxygen or hydrogen in water. If anything the 316 would be less reactive due to the addition of molybdenum.

Most ss require oxygen to maintain its protective oxide layer and hence prevent corrosion, so I would expect all ss to suffer some sort of corrosion as at an oxygen depleted cathode.

[mrgalleria]

Aloha,
GlassGlow had mentioned that he was attempting a Meyers reproduction.
Farrahday states "I should not take too much notice of what Meyer said". I would like to follow Farrahday if he has had equal or greater success to Meyer. If not, I am inclined to listen to Meyer.
Bill

[FarrahDay]

Be it on your head Mr G.

No answers will be forthcoming from Meyer!

[FarrahDay]

Glassy

316 is better than 304 in that it can withstand harsher environments than 304. Like I mentioned it has molybdenum added.

That said, we use 304 all the time for cooking utensils and sinks, so it will be quite acceptable for a wfc that is just going to use tap water. If your going to add strong acids or alkalines then 316 will be more resistant to corrosion. However, as Meyer was just using tap water, 304 should be fine - it's cheaper and more readily available too.

Mr G, any 'success' that Meyer had would appear to have died with him. And as no one yet seems to have been able to build a Meyer wfc that is actually capable of powering a car, I would suspect there are some issues with his patents... wouldn't you?

Not being deliberately negative... just realistic.

Oh, and I'm a 'she', not a 'he'.

[Racer426]

[Racer426]

[FarrahDay]

[Racer426]

Sorry FarrahDay, but you leave too many open ends. And maybe it's different in England.

You are right that the carbon content is about the same for 304 & 316. And the addition of molybdenum prevents specific forms of corrosion.

And yes, 304 is the most widely used. What I said was: 316L was the best AND is lower in Carbon. The "L" means "Low Carbon". The BEST - in order would be: 316L - 316 - 304L - 304. Everyone has to justify the cost for themselves.

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stainless_steel
Quote: Type 316—the second most common grade (after 304); for food and surgical stainless steel uses; Alloy addition of molybdenum prevents specific forms of corrosion. 316 steel is used in the manufacture and handling of food and pharmaceutical products where it is often required in order to minimize metallic contamination. It is also known as "marine grade" stainless steel due to its increased resistance to chloride corrosion compared to type 304. SS316 is often used for building nuclear reprocessing plants. Most watches that are made of stainless steel are made of Type 316L. End of Quote

FarrahDay: Just because your tubes are smooth on the inside, doesn't mean ALL tubes are smooth. There are several ways to manufacture the Welded joint. Some are smooth inside and some are not. So unless you KNOW without a doubt that it is smooth, you better order Seamless. Maybe you can call the supplier to make sure first. If you can VERIFY that the welded tube is smooth inside, go for it. If you CAN'T verify, order Seamless.

Hope this helps,

[Racer426]

I just read this in another forum. This is from Bob Boyce on using 304 vs 316L in his style cell. Which I might add, IS BEING DONE NOW.

QUESTION: Bob, maybe you can tell me what the differences are between SS 304 and SS 316L?
Our local price of SS 316L is 2 times that of SS 304. If the SS 304 plates are used in the cell, what will the results be? Thanks!

ANSWER: You can calculate it yourself if you really wanted to, just by using figures I had already provided.

304SS = best production of 198% as compared to 100% Faraday at DC.
or
316LSS = best production of 238% as compared to 100% Faraday at DC.

Either, when properly resonated with a toroidal power system = 400% to 500% of DC production. So....

304SS = 792% to 990% during resonance as compared to 100% Faraday at DC.
or
316LSS = 952% to 1190% during resonance as compared to 100% Faraday at DC.

Now these figures are for optimal production, with everything done right when it comes to manufacture accuracy, preparation, conditioning, and operation of the unit. Math does come in handy sometimes

Bob

Hope this Helps.

[FarrahDay]