new guys thoughts on resonance

[my77gmc]

[chemelec]

[kevinsatterfield]

[chemelec]

[kumaran]

[chemelec]

[my77gmc]

[my77gmc]

[my77gmc]

[chemelec]

[quote="my77gmc"]aside from that has anyone stuck a meter on their water cell and measured capacitance?

i have...do it urself and post ur results here, just for curiosities sake.
/quote]

OK, Here are some Very Carefully tested results on two cells.
(Plate Sizes on each are about 2.5 by 5.5 inches.)

Water Temp = 20 Degree
Water = Store bought Distilled water.

Test Instruments:
1) B&K 878, Universal LCR Meter
2) Sencore LC102, Capacitor/Inductor Analyzer.

Both Instruments are Calibrated and I have checked there accuracy with a "Factory bought, Standard Test Set of 3 capacitors".

** Cell 1: an 8 plate "series cell". With No water = 19.5 pF.
Leakage test at 100 VDC, using instrument 2 above = 0.28 uA.

Instrument 1: Capacitance with water and on 120 hz = Varies between 2.2 to 2.9 uF.
Instrument 1: Capacitance with water and on 1 khz = Varies between 39nF to 125 nF.

Instrument 2: Capacitance with water= average of 7.4 uf, varies somewhat also.

** Cell 2: a 12 plate "parallel cell". With No water = 245 pF.
Leakage test at 100 VDC, using instrument 2 above = 0.30 uA.

Instrument 1: Capacitance with water and on 120 hz = Varies between 147 to 155 uF.
Instrument 1: Capacitance with water and on 1 khz = Varies between 6.5 uF to 9 uF.

Instrument 2: Capacitance with water = Holds fairly stable at 0.844 FARADS.

Using Instrument 2 and Attempting to test thesecell with water in them:
a) Capacitor Leakage
b) Dielectric Absorption
c) Capacitor ESR.
Absolutely FAILED on All three tests.

So if it is a Capacitor, it doesn't act like any capacitor I know of.

And Strangely Enough, using "Instrument 1" to test Inductance an the Series Cell: it measure 20 mh on the 1 KHz test.
and it measure a Huge .879 Henries on the 120 Hz test.

So does this measurement make it an INDUCTOR of that value?
I THINK NOT!

Considerably Lower resuts on the Parallel cell. But enough is enough.

[my77gmc]

bob-i wasnt expecting a fast response...i was wlooking to retract m,y previous statement. i couldnt remember for sure that meyers was the one that was referring to his cells as capacitors in his equations on his patents and i regretted implying as such without knowing for sure. aside from that i felt what i said was quite "highschool". either way i would prefer to associate with people who dont spend every waking moment plugged into the internet. seems kinda "abnormal" when someones always there.


no i dont think its an inductor. but for whatever reason your meter is reading that what its hooked up to is creating inductance.

if something creates inductance, then i would have to assume that it is in fact creating inductance. in which case there is inductance that needs to be factored into the equation when you are designing or evaluating you circuit.

in short no i wouldnt call it an inductor, but yes i would say that it creates an inductance.

just the same i wouldnt say that my cell is a capacitor, but it stores energy like a capacitor.

just about anything electrical is an inductor to some degree.

i really hope i havent got on anyones bad side here, i havent said anyting here that was intended to offend. i appologise if i was taken that way.

[chemelec]

[my77gmc]

[chemelec]

[my77gmc]

Having aged 7 years or so...



I'm thinking stan Meyers computer controls maintained a resonant circuit within a dynamic system. The water cell being a fraction of the total capacitance of the resonant circuit. I think that if the capacitance is a measurable variable, the inductance can be varied to maintain resonance at a specific frequency. Or , if the capacitance were a measurable variable, the frequency could be varied to maintain resonance with a fixed inductance(which is indicated in the schematics I've seen).

Happy landings!